Thread: honing question

I moved this from the general section for concern it will be shut down in that section....please look this over and add any assistance that you can....thank you in advance....
okay I may be posting in the wrong category - I apologize in advance if that is the case. Okay long story short - I have 3 or 4 straight razors now and none of them are shave ready at all - some are sharper than other but still not at the shave ready stage (I have tried them) I have honing blocks one is very rough - Im sure its for setting an edge and the other is very very smooth although the seller did not know the actual grit of it himself - I got it off of the bay and it is an "oil stone" I think. Anyway I know how to hone a blade I have watched the videos and have experience with pocket knives, and yes I know that honing a straight razor is completely different than honing a pocket knive - but some of the same basic concepts do apply I belive. My question is this how many times should I pass the razor on the honing stone? I understand the importance of keeping the strokes the same per each edge, I have no problem with that at all.

I look forward to your insights.

Thank you
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No prescribed number of strokes.
On a bevel setter it can be 20 it can be 200 it can be any number depending on stone, razor grind how hard the steel is etc.
When you move up the progression the number of strokes decreases, but at the end you will learn from experience how many strokes on each stone.

You almost certainly need better stones - what you've described so far sounds adequate for knives but likely unsuited for razors. There are good articles in the wiki describing the equipment and technique for honing straight razors, as well as lots of good information in the threads in this forum, especially in the "Honing" section (which is distinct from this section which is the "Hones" section). While there are indeed similarities between honing straight razors and honing knives, it is the differences that are important, as failure to master the specific techniques for razors will inhibit you from achieving a razor-sharp edge (razor-sharp by razor standards, not the much lower standard of "razor sharp" commonly used for knives).

The answer is! There is no science to it. How do I know this? I am just starting out honing and I can give you some basic number of laps (given to me by Glen).

For example,I wanted to refresh a few razors with a tapped spine and Glen offered the suggestion (THANKS GLEN!!!) of going back to 20-30 strokes on a 4K then move up to how I prefer (8K, then 12K, strop, and Happy Shaving!).

On the Puma it was right at 30 strokes, where is the Genco was 22. Why? Different razors need different things.

How do I with very little experience honing even know that much? Listening to the guys here and TRYING different things (AKA shave test). You will learn what you like and how you like the razors to feel. After that, the sky is the limit.

I am sure more members will tag onto this thread. Just wanted to add my two cents from a new honer!

As others have said, the number of strokes really does depend on the razor! Its not an exact science, and I had a similar experience to SR-CMT when I was honing a couple of my razors that had dulled.

One of them took a great edge after 20 strokes on the 4k, the other took nearly 40. It varies from razor to razor!

In terms of the stones you have, it sounds like you may need to get some other grits.

You'll need:

1k - This is your bevel setter. Do not move off this stone until you can shave arm hair at skin level all the way along the blade. This ensures you have a good bevel that you can then refine.

4k - (Or a Naniwa 3k or 5k). This is your sharpener. You should be able to shave arm hair floating just above the skin after this stone. You'll hear the hairs pinging off.

8k - This is your polisher. This stone is just refining the edge from the sharpener and making the edge smoother. You can actually shave right off this stone if you want to test the edge. If you can shave here, you have a good edge.

10k+ - This is your finisher. This is very final touch up and refinement of your edge.

0.5 micron diamond spray on felt/denim or chromium oxide paste on something (leather or linen) - A further refinement of the edge. Also useful for touch ups when the edge starts to dull.

You wont need to dip below 1k unless you have damage to the edge like a chip or something.

Good kits include the 220/1k & 4/8k Norton set from Amazon. You can also get a 5/8/12k set of Naniwas or a 4/8/16k set of Shaptons from SRD. You'll just need to add the 1k to each of those sets.

Which to go for? The Naniwas and Shaptons are both very popular at the moment and either set would serve you well. I have the Shaptons and they're great! Other members have given rave reviews to the Naniwas.

Make sure you keep your strokes very light, with the only pressure on the blade being the weight of the blade itself.

Check out the videos on youtube as well, as they offer great advice! Jockeys posted a video of KenRup doing a full edge restore and honing and thats a really great set of videos!

Good luck!

Into the unknown zone...

BK you have given to many unknowns for us to really help, via internet...

I'll use SR-CMT's example I knew exactly what set of hones he had and what razor he was working with and where he needed to go, so it makes me look smart where in all actuality it was just me doing the same experience over and over ...

First off the stones, you said E-bay which is a huge red flag because they might not even be what the guy advertised... Two we always try and warn people to stay away from e-bay until they don't have to ask questions any longer...
Three the razors themselves we don't know whether these are hollows or wedges and the amount of strokes to set a bevel between the two can be very very very different no matter who you might be, not even to mention the starting point of each edge..

My suggestion is first get your favorite one out of the 4 razors sent to a Honemeister first, and have at least one of those blades professionally honed so you have a goal...
Second get a "Known" set of stones, (Naniwa, Shapton, Norton, depending on your finances) in a 1k 4k 8k range at least so then you have some help with honing as many know those stones... (Amazon has the Norton set for $119 shipped)

You also never said if these razors were shave ready to start with, as the normal progression is learn shaving first, honing second, if at all...

+1 on what mparker and Glen (sixgun) said on sure enough razor quality stones like the Nortons, Naniwas or Shaptons. You will hear of guys honing on Arkansas stones or whatever and getting razors sharp but unless you're a really experienced razor honer I doubt if you'll get a truly smooth and comfortable shave ready edge with those stones. With proper waterstones once you have the skill you can equal or surpass the shave you would get from a DE with good blades. I don't think you can do that with lesser hones.

Although honing is not a reconized science, we can use the tools of science, like a microscope or a loupe. Looking at a blades edge with a loupe as you progress through the stones of different grits will really open up you perception of what is happening with any given stone. Have a strong light source so you can really see the scratch patterns and the light bouncing off the edge. We all only have so much hair on our arms, and a good close look with a loupe will reserve the hair you have for when you feel you are really close to shave ready. good luck with it. Alx