Thread: Does this Escher need a slurry stone?

Thanks, Jimmy. I will try it out when I get it.

I guess one other problem is that I don't have as much confidence in my own ability to discern what is a really super stone without relying on the label as a kind of crutch. Actually, I've gotten past the "name brand" obsession when it comes to razors, but I just don't feel like I know enough to make the same judgments about stones.

So just between us, what exactly am I going to be looking for when I get the stone? I know how to use a stone for polishing, and I'm currently using a really nice Japanese natural stone that I got from Alex Gilmore. But what would you look for if you were in the kitchen with me and making this decision in my place? Thanks.

Also, I use a small, coarse Naniwa diamond flattening stone to make a slurry on my Japanese stone. Does this mean that I am "wasting" this stone when I do this? Thanks.

Similar stones with box recently fetched less than USD 100 AFAIK. However, if the box is in very nice condition and the catch is not broken (as the catches usually are) it may be worth more.

Uhm, the seller does sound a bit incompetent. What makes an Escher an Escher is the label. There are plenty of thuringian hones and they are all pretty similar. In fact some of them are better than some Escher mined ones.
If you paid so much money for an Escher label you most likely won't get it (check upon arrival). If you paid it for a great finisher you most likely will get it (again check upon arrival).

Originally Posted by JeffE

So just between us, what exactly am I going to be looking for when I get the stone?
Also, I use a small, coarse Naniwa diamond flattening stone to make a slurry on my Japanese stone. Does this mean that I am "wasting" this stone when I do this? Thanks.

I look for significant improvement in the edge. For instance my Light Green Escher will have hair popping in no time. I have a natural coticule of fairly recent harvest that will do the same. IOW the results are far better than other stones of the same family. I have a couple of Hohenzollerns with one of the them giving far better results than the other yet they look close to identical. I would say you'll know it when you feel it as far as the results go.

Don't know about the slurry stone. I just like to use the same type if grits will be mixed. With the diamond plates I don't think they lose diamonds in the slurry. If I thought that they did I wouldn't use them.

Thanks, all, especially since I'd be at this guy's mercy without all of the good information you have given me. I will look for what you suggested when the stone arrives and then make a decision. Appreciate all of the help!!

I have a "no name" brand Thury that is basically an escher in every way except the label.

This is just me speaking about my personal preferences but I think a great finishing stone is worth X amount and the label is worth Y amount.

If Lynn sold an Escher and he said "this is a great finisher" (assuming for argument's sake that Lynn is reputable and correct- which I believe he his but just covering my bases) and said stone had a great label, it would then be worth X+Y.

If he said "this is a so-so/poor/otherwise not great finisher" and said stone had a great label, it would be worth Y.

If he said "this is a great finisher" and said stone had no label/a damaged label/otherwise unreadable label, it would be worth X.

Get my drift? It is the semantics of "not all Eschers are great" combined with "not all thuringens are Eschers" and "Thuringens have high potential to be great hones". If you paid $150 for a great quality finisher you may get it. If you paid $100 for the label and $50 for the finisher you will probably be disappointed. The label from the pic looks like "Celebrated Water Razor Hone".

I couldn't say without seeing the actual auction listing, but I would think that, unless he said it was a labeled Escher, he would have no reason to refund your money unless you could prove it is not an Escher. Since Escher is a brand of a type of hone and it cannot be proven 100% that the stone is origional to the box unless the stone is marked, I don't think it would be possible.

Collectors may pay big bucks for names - I prefer to pay for performance. And for performance, you never know till you try.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about the name brand. I have a labeled dark blue Escher and a little boxed Thuringian like yours to compare directly, and I think the little Thuringian is a better finisher. Go figure.

Take a razor and finish it on the stone, if it leaves a good finish you are golden!

Although it is pretty cool to have one of those stones with so much prestige...

Thank you all for the guidance and advice. Like Jimmy suggested, I will try the stone out when I get it and, if it is indeed a fantastic finishing stone, I may end up keeping it despite the lack of label, although from a seller who misrepresents the label on the stone and then bad-mouths this wesite when asked about it, I'm not so sure that I'll be receiving even nearly what's been promised. Anyway, I will post some photos of what I receive, and thank you all again for the help.

I think you've made the right decision. Generic boxed 5 x 1 thuringians of this type generally go for anywhere from $80 to $130. What you paid is upwards of the upper end, but not outrageously so.

Whether or not it's a "real Escher" will matter only if you resell it, in my opinion. I do not subscribe to the theory that Escher & Co. brand thuringians are better than other brands or generic ones. This has certainly not been the case in my experience (granted, limited to about 10 specimens). There is variation from stone to stone but it doesn't appear to be a function of brand.

In all of the pre-internet razor-and-hone-related literature I've gotten my hands on, Thuringians were generally called "German waterstones" and they were always highly prized; but I've never seen so much as a single instance of Escher & Sons being singled out for praise. Not one. My theory is that Escher-fetish is a by-product of the internet. The labels are very cool, some of them quite beautiful, very characteristic of their period, and obviously appealing to antique-hunters. And in the early days of online shaving groups and forums, when there wasn't a lot of organized or exhaustive knowledge about stone types and their provenance, the Escher label and company name served as a reliable classification. When some SRPers started coming across the same stones with other labels or no label at all, we just kept calling them Eschers. Then as we learned more about their history and where they come from etc. we drifted toward calling them by the more accurate term 'Thuringians'. About that time the idea took hold that an Escher-brand Thuringian was something special, the real deal, but I don't think there's any historical basis for this idea at all. I'm not even sure Escher & Sons had its own mine; it would be interesting to find out. It seems entirely possible that whoever owned and operated the mine(s) simply sold their raw stock to Escher, Fox, and any other number of companies.

Note that I'm speaking only about the vintage stones. There are more recently quarried German stones that are sometimes also called "Thuringians," which are apparently quite different from the vintage article (faster and not quite as fine, it is said).

I think the seller was exploiting the terminological ambiguity to make an extra buck. On SRP I regularly refer to my vintage Thuringian as an "Escher," even though it isn't, simply because this was the done thing when I joined and it's my habit. But when I sell a stone, I'm very scrupulous about the distinction because the Escher label has market value, even if (in my opinion) it doesn't signal anything superior about its use value.