Thread: Hones and Geology

Hi Guys,

I've been thinking about natural hones lately and so I'd just like to put a few questions out there to anyone who may know..

I live in South Africa - a country rich in various minerals and natural resources ie. platinum, gold, diamonds, copper, coal etc etc.. So I've been wondering why not rock/stone appropriate for sharpening steel? Surely the 'known' spots on the planet for hauling out rock that's good for sharpening aren't the 'only' deposits..? I mean, hones aren't exactly big business like platinum and gold, so I doubt much energy has gone into exploring the earth for new hone-stone deposits... you know..?
I live in a region known for this band of very old sedimentary rock that makes up much of the landscape (shale/slate mostly) and this is what got me thinking about it all. I mean I've looked at images of Japanese natural hones, and seen the raw rock etc, and it just looks so familiar, like "I've seen rock like that a thousand times before.." I also dug up some small pieces of what looks like hard black shale or a type of slate I suppose - in either case, it's sedimentary rock that is fine-grained and made up of high quantities of quartz or mica.. So I lapped a small side of it, though it was pretty smooth from the ground (has the same shine/smooth feel as my BBW) and when you rub two pieces together it forms an earthy smelling, white slurry...
My final test was to rub the back of an old razor blade on it - just light back and forth strokes over the lapped spot with the slurry - and guess what? A bright, shiny spot on the dull steel - brighter than the spot my coticule created right next to it.. So this leaves me thinking if it's just CRAZY to think that if I got a larger piece of this sedimentary rock, cut it to the right size and then lapped it and used it, would I be able to call it a 'proper' hone? You know what I mean?
If it abrades metal, and looks and works like a hone, then surely it's a hone...perhaps even a 'notable' hone, who knows..

So I guess here are my questions:

1 - What exactly are coticules, covenant stones, thuringians, Japanese naturals, etc etc? (from what I can gather they are all 'sedimentary' rocks, altered to some extent through time/pressure/heat to have the right quantity of metal-cutting elements.. ) But what exactly are they classified as? When a geologist holds a thuringian/escher stone, what does he or she classify it as?

2 - Is it rational to assume that perhaps there are other deposits of 'hone worthy' stones in different regions of the planet, that we don't have the definitive list of good hone stones, and that due to the random nature of the planet and of one stone from another, that any suitable sedimentary rock with metal cutting ability could be deemed a Hone?

Guys this is a long ramble of a post, so sorry indeed for that - I'm hoping I'm not the only one to have thought about all this, and so it would be great to hear some of your thoughts..

Cheers,
- Mike

In the Geological Survey of Arkansas the author concludes that an apparent lack of material suitable for honestones in any country is most likely due to a lack of exploration, rather than the absence of the material itself. A while ago I got the bit between my teeth in my search for the ever-elusive Devonshire Oilstone and set out on a quest to find out as much about it as possible; having read my way through the British Library, the archives of the British Geological Survey and everything I could find on Google Books I never got any nearer to the Devonshire hone, but I emerged with an appreciation and understanding of just how many different types of hones there are. Even with a very knowledgable membership base, I can assure you that the hones that are known to and in use amongst the straight shaving community represent a mere fraction of what is really out there.

One of the main things that the Devonshire Oilstone taught me, and a point that I have raised on here a number of times since, is that a great many hones served a local market, but never furnished what could be described as a commercial trade nationally, let alone internationally. Consequently, many hones must remain unknown to us because their use was never recorded and they never became items of commerce. As well as meeting the necessary petrological characteristics to make a honestone, there are a number of other factors that must be taken into consideration. Firstly, the hones must occur in abundance, secondly the hones must be easy to access and to extract, there are a number of beds of excellent honestone in Arkansas, but in many of these the rocks were full of cracks and fissures so it was never extracted as it could never be taken out in the size necessary for the venture to be profitable. Once the stone is excavated, there needs to be a reliable means of transporting the raw material first to be manufactured into hones, and then to transport them to market. This is why the Arkansas and Washita stones were able to capture such a large market share, as the original quarriers relied on river boats to transport large quantities of stone to be processed and then to be sold all over the US, later capturing a large International market as well. Conversely, whilst many sites in Canada had excellent hone material, the difficulty in extracting and transporting the stone meant that these beds were never exploited commercially. Another point to consider is that a market for honestones must exist in the first place, there were many excellent quarries in the state of New York, some of which were recorded as being as good as anything else on the market, but local people favoured the use of imported items and consequently, many of the quarries were never even opened or worked on a local level.

Another economic point to consider is that honestones aren't generally very profitable worked by themselves. Many mines or quarries produced honestones in addition to building materials, road materials and roofing and writing slates. Before anyone had ever heard of HAD, a hone was in many cases likely to be a one time purchase. Griswold gives a very good account of these economic considerations in the Arkansas Geological Survey Report.

When it comes to the formation of these stones, the majority of hones and whetstones are meta-sedimentary rocks, although other types have been used. There are a great many variables to take into account such as abrasive grain type, size and density and distribution within the rock, as well as the nature of the binder material. As I mentioned previously, there are a huge number of hones found all over the world, so favourable geological conditions occur frequently, it's just that some areas produce better hones than others. So Yamashita gives an interesting analogy on his website, when he mentions an Australian Winemaker wanting to produce wine of a quality like that from the Romanee Conti vineyard, whilst he found a vineyard which was similiar in many ways, his end product was clearly not the same. In this way the conditions which produce such high quality hones in Japan, may not seem to be hugely different than those often found elsewhere, Japanese stones still have a distinctive character of their own, eventhough excellent hones are found elsewhere.

As far as hones from your part of the world are concerned, I know of a few hones from the same continent as you, but in general Africa doesn't seem to have been widely surveyed for the necessary materials. Very early, pre-history relic sharpening stones have been found in Kenya; these are large, circular stones with grooves worn in them from sharpening rudimentary edged tools. There were honestones found in Rhodesia which had distinctive surface patterning, theorised to have been caused by rain drops. From memory, I remember reading about whetstones coming from Tanzinia, but don't have the reference to hand.

Kindest regards,
Alex

Thank you Alex, excellent comment.
I've read your other posts and like how you think and appreciate your passion on this subject. I've meanwhile contacted several university geologists in SA to just ask about any history of hone stones in our country, and also just to explore the possibility of there being sites with a higher probability of suitable hone stones forming and really where one should start looking..

Originally Posted by Jasper Kade

Thank you Alex, excellent comment.
I've read your other posts and like how you think and appreciate your passion on this subject. I've meanwhile contacted several university geologists in SA to just ask about any history of hone stones in our country, and also just to explore the possibility of there being sites with a higher probability of suitable hone stones forming and really where one should start looking..

A good place to start looking would be in any slate formations you can find. Slates, and metamorphosed slates, from all over the world have been used as hones. Slates from the English Lake District have a history of use going back to the Vikings. As well as hone-slates, lithographic slates have a history of use as razor hones and there are also certain types of polishing slate that would be suitable for the job as well. The company offering the Covenant Stones you mentioned also offer a Brazilian Slate Hone, which is rated at about 10k grit wise, and is, I believe, a recent introduction to the market.

Good luck with your search.

Kindest regards,
Alex

You also have to realize there are many rocks that will function as hones however you need to have (as has been said) a deposit large enough to be economically feasable and have a quality of material which is way more than just suitable if you want to make some money. So you need the deposit and the quality and find it somewhere where exploitation is practical. No different in a way as an example we have diamonds in the U.S in Arkansas but not in sufficient amount to have a commercial operation and there are many minerals found in the U.S that might produce good specimen grade material are again limited in deposit size.

Want to know where to start? Go to a good University and start going over geologic maps and overlay them with Topographic Maps to find the proper type of rock and then just go there and do what prospectors did years ago. It's not going to be like finding gold because most geologists probably will only be able to help you find where the general type rock to investigate lies. Also read up on all the types of rock well suited for honing. There is much more in addition to the stuff comprising coticules. Some of the Japanese stuff is Alumina based rocks, very fined grained.

Jasper
All good detailed advice above. I like the idea of using already prepared University driven geological survays, and a country like SA must have had lots of interest in what's underground.

In the area near Kyoto where the mines are located the geologic name is Tamba Terrane and there are articles that describe the mineral makeup of this particular terrane, here is a link
http://www.gsj.jp/Pub/Bull_new/vol_5...1/53_01_05.pdf

Also Wikepedia has a good article on Terrane.
From what I understand the main cutting abrasive in tennen toishi or natual finishing stones from Kyoto is chert. It is the quality of fineness of the chert that gives you a medium or a fine grit stone. In your research you might use "chert" and "radiolarites" as search words.
Good Luck, Alx

Found this passage from "De Natura Fossilium" (May have been posted before..)

Found it very interesting indeed. Anyone want to take a stab at naming the types of Hones that are mentioned here? Some are quite exotic sounding, would be interesting to know if anyone has more info on them...


"Cos (quartzite), that is used to sharpen tools, is the next mineral to be considered. Certainly every man has sharpened his knife on a whetstone as well as the mower his scythe, the barber his razor and the carpenter his saw. And what is more important all iron tools made or used by artisans are sharpened on a whetstone. There are many species, some classified according to the kind of liquid they require, others according to the coun try where they are found. Oil is spread on some stones and these produce the finest edge. They are called olearia. In Germany these are used only by barbers for sharpening their razors. In Italy at one time, according to Pliny, the men who did the mowing were in the habit of carrying a horn of oil fastened to their leg and this was used when sharpening their sythes. The finest of these stones is found today in Germany in the district of that famous town which takes its name from waters. Second quality stones are found in Saxony not far from Garleba. The third quality are found in Bohemia. Pliny writes that for a long time the finest were obtained from Crete and the second quality from Laconia on Mt. Taygeta.
Certain whetstones are moistened with water and these are called aquaria. They are found most abundantly along the rivers of Hesse, especially the Lanus river near Marburg and the Eder near Francoberg. They were found in Italy and beyond the Alps in Passernices according to Pliny. They are found on Cyprus, Naxos, Arsinoe and in Armenia. At one time the Naxos stones were considered to be the best, the Armenian, second.
A third variety of whetstone is most efficient when moistened with both water and oil. These come from Cilicia. A fourth variety is moistened with saliva. According to Pliny these were used at one time by barbers instead of the oil stones used today and he states that the finest of these are the Flamin stones from Upper Spain.
Whetstones vary in color. They are either black, as those from Saxony and some from lower Germany, or green as are some of the Italian and many of the Bohemian stones some of which have a distinctive white vein. Some of the stones from Lower Germany have conspicuous alternating black and white bands. Those found in the rivers of Hesse are usually dark colored. The large blocks from which they make the drum-shaped mill stones have various colors, some being white or gray, others whitish-gray, yellow or red. Regarding softness or hardness the oil stones are soft, softer than the saliva stones used by most men. If they slip from the hand and fall these usually break Water stones, on the other hand are hard. The green stones from Bohemia are usually harder than other oil stones and can be used for the same purposes as the water stones. Stones are not discarded if the white veins running through them have the same hardness as the rest of the stone. These veins may be so soft that oil spread on the rest of the stone will exude from them. Some stones have a natural cubic form. Some are long and need only to be smoothed and perforated. When they are broad they are cut into two or more stones."

Are there any places in California that I can go dig? All I need is to break off a piece, I have the equipment that can shape the hones flat.

Originally Posted by Jasper Kade

Found this passage from "De Natura Fossilium" (May have been posted before..)

Found it very interesting indeed. Anyone want to take a stab at naming the types of Hones that are mentioned here? Some are quite exotic sounding, would be interesting to know if anyone has more info on them...


"Cos (quartzite), that is used to sharpen tools, is the next mineral to be considered. Certainly every man has sharpened his knife on a whetstone as well as the mower his scythe, the barber his razor and the carpenter his saw. And what is more important all iron tools made or used by artisans are sharpened on a whetstone. There are many species, some classified according to the kind of liquid they require, others according to the coun try where they are found. Oil is spread on some stones and these produce the finest edge. They are called olearia. In Germany these are used only by barbers for sharpening their razors. In Italy at one time, according to Pliny, the men who did the mowing were in the habit of carrying a horn of oil fastened to their leg and this was used when sharpening their sythes. The finest of these stones is found today in Germany in the district of that famous town which takes its name from waters. Second quality stones are found in Saxony not far from Garleba. The third quality are found in Bohemia. Pliny writes that for a long time the finest were obtained from Crete and the second quality from Laconia on Mt. Taygeta.
Certain whetstones are moistened with water and these are called aquaria. They are found most abundantly along the rivers of Hesse, especially the Lanus river near Marburg and the Eder near Francoberg. They were found in Italy and beyond the Alps in Passernices according to Pliny. They are found on Cyprus, Naxos, Arsinoe and in Armenia. At one time the Naxos stones were considered to be the best, the Armenian, second.
A third variety of whetstone is most efficient when moistened with both water and oil. These come from Cilicia. A fourth variety is moistened with saliva. According to Pliny these were used at one time by barbers instead of the oil stones used today and he states that the finest of these are the Flamin stones from Upper Spain.
Whetstones vary in color. They are either black, as those from Saxony and some from lower Germany, or green as are some of the Italian and many of the Bohemian stones some of which have a distinctive white vein. Some of the stones from Lower Germany have conspicuous alternating black and white bands. Those found in the rivers of Hesse are usually dark colored. The large blocks from which they make the drum-shaped mill stones have various colors, some being white or gray, others whitish-gray, yellow or red. Regarding softness or hardness the oil stones are soft, softer than the saliva stones used by most men. If they slip from the hand and fall these usually break Water stones, on the other hand are hard. The green stones from Bohemia are usually harder than other oil stones and can be used for the same purposes as the water stones. Stones are not discarded if the white veins running through them have the same hardness as the rest of the stone. These veins may be so soft that oil spread on the rest of the stone will exude from them. Some stones have a natural cubic form. Some are long and need only to be smoothed and perforated. When they are broad they are cut into two or more stones."

This was a good reading. Is there a source for the complete book(it was first published in 1546) Thanks.

Not complete, but a start: De Natura Fossilium (Textbook of ... - Google Books

There's also a good annotated 1958 German translation by dr. Hans Prescher and dr. Georg Fraustadt.