Thread: Shobu KARASU SUITA" Lv3.5 on the bay?

JAPANESE Natural whetstone!! "Shobu KARASU SUITA" Lv3.5 - eBay (item 260559363116 end time Mar-27-10 08:55:43 PDT)

is it just me or is this a pretty good deal? I thought suita's like this (and its big, 175 X 75mm) often went for several c-notes? or maybe suita is a much more general term than I thought? are there decent japanese naturals one can use for finishing a razor that one can get for under $100? what are good vendors?

his little table of natural hone properties is pretty interesting - though I dont quite know how to decipher it, or how hones I'm familiar with (e.g. a yellow coti) would fit in there.

Um, there's far more qualified people than me to be commenting on this hone, but just from my limited experience, I can tell you that not every Japanese natural stone (whether Suita or Nakayama or Karasu or whatever) is suitable as a razor hone. In fact, I understand that the subset of stones that actually work well as razor finishers is a very small minority of what are available out there today. The vast majority of them are used as knife and tool sharpeners, and like any other knife or tool sharpener, they just don't work at all on a blade that you are using on your face.

Also, there a quite a few people here who have commented on the fact that the rating system shown here is pretty much meaningless and doesn't tell you anything useful about what sort of stone you are getting in the mail. The rating system seems to have originated with another seller named 330mate, and now others on eBay are following it too. The bottom line is that the ratings are entirely qualitative and judgment-based, so calling any stone 3++++++ or 5++ is just silly.

The main thing that distinguishes reputable dealers from others, in my opinion, is their willingness to send you a stone (or 3 or 5) and allow you an opportunity to TEST it out and keep it or not depending on how it works. If you are interested, Alex Gilmore of The Japan Blade works like this. His prices are considerably higher, but in my estimation, you get what you pay for here!

Hope this is useful.

yes, well, I certainly didn't go ahead and buy it. but I wasnt sure if he was advertising something too-good-to-be-true, or if I just couldnt tell why this wasnt a very good stone (or very good for razors).

thanks for the tip on the reliable seller, though.

May be I missed in the description, but it does not say its for razors.
Takeshi deals with knives and stones for knife sharpening primarily, so this stone would do for knives. As far as razors, I don't know, I know that razor suitable Karasu is rare and really expensive.

yikes - japan blade's hone are mostly $1k, $2K, $3K...1-2 at the $600 point. no wonder shapton is doing a brisk business.

Originally Posted by JeffE

. The bottom line is that the ratings are entirely qualitative and judgment-based, so calling any stone 3++++++ or 5++ is just silly.
.

intersting what you say about the history of the rating system, but I'm not sure I agree with this conclusion. the fact is that when it comes to natural stones on their side and sharpness ont he other, there just is no way to measure the relevant qualities scientifically. it is ALWAYS going to be qualitiative and "judgment based." of course, if it's the case that sellers abuse these ratings and mislead customers about their products, that's a problem - but that's not the fault of the ratings system.

Again, I don't mean to sound like I'm Alex Gilmore's brother-in-law, because I'm not, but there IS a very scientific and reproducible way of evaluating these stones. If you look on Alex's site, he will show you a microphotograph of a blade polished using an 8k stone, a 16k stone, a 30k stone, and then the stone that you are evaluating. If you look at the structure of the abrasions, you can confirm that approximate "grit" of the stone -- it's that easy. Alex also provides photographs of each stone's slurry under several different standard conditions so you can evaluate how fast or slow the slurry will develop.

So why doesn't 330mate and others do this sort of testing? Because it takes too much work, plain and simple, and 330mate and others would rather just give you some mumbo-jumbo about 3+++++ or 5++++++++++ stones.

Don't take my word for it, however. I'm not an expert, just a buyer and user of these stones. Instead, ask Old School. Ask SiRed. Ask Jim R. Heck, even Lynn will tell you that these "HGAL" ratings have very little connection to the actual stone that you receive from the vendor.

Also, for the record, Alex sells lots of koppas that cost $100 to $400, and at least when you buy one of these, you know it's a decent stone for the job. Compare that to purchasing 2, 3 or 4 stones on eBay that aren't at all suited to what you are trying to do, and you'll see why Alex might actually be cheaper in the long run.

That stone is not mean to for straight razors. Seller does mention which one is for straight razor suitable.
I think Alex is a great seller. He even sends you the stone and you test them in case you don't like them he pays back shipping too(which is not fair to him).

I dont know anything about this particular stone, but I have purchased two others from him. One described as a shobu "pale purple" and a shobu asagi. Both are good stones and I have polished with and shaved off both. If you contact him he will tell you which ones he thinks are suitable for razors, I think you have to take his advice with a grain of salt, though, because I dont think he has any experience with razors. IMO there are bargains out there but there are also wastes of money, I have a couple of each example. I still say my japanblade stone is far superior(naratuki), but it also cost 5 times as much, but is also 3 times as big. Metalmasterjp also has a webpage where he sells his higher grade stones, which is where I got my asagi. If I was to choose a bargain stone between him or 330mate, I would go with him. This is based on comparing my two 330mate stones(cracked, toxic inclusions) to his(clean, no cracks or inclusions). IMO though, if you want a guaranteed good razor finisher, pay the money and go with Japanblade, or Old_School, or one of the fine members stones on the classifieds which have been used by them and can be vouched for by them. Good luck.

This one looks better: JAPANESE Natural water stone !! "Shobu ASAGI" Lv4.5 - eBay (item 260558671742 end time Mar-26-10 03:39:46 PDT)


And too: #7 Natural Ohira JAPANESE SHARPENING STONE RAZOR HONE - eBay (item 150402096881 end time Mar-03-10 08:53:45 PST)

First you need to decide what approximate size you need. After finding a 30mm wide coticule I found I like that width. Length is always a plus but if you can manage on less.

3.1/2 inches as is the ohira suita is pretty short. (depends on how well you can do with circles and side sharpening i guess.) Nevertheless, a nice rock. I have a similar one-.

I have not seen the point of spending 500 on a razor hone, other than simply to have it. We could compare its value on shave quality, to other natural stones, or synthetics.

I know I have good stones because they can compare in speed to synthetics. yet finish finer than my coti or 8k. The soft, smelly, muddy ones generally do not get me the best razor edge.

Karasu: probably not what you need : Shobu Karasu stone | Waterstone | Wood working tool, Japanese wood working tool shop.

A lot of us who've asked Japan Tool (i hope you eat meat) for a specialized razor hone have typically ( from who ive spoken with here) ended up with asagi. That or a hard_ish , fine suita have given me best results.