Thread: Norton 8K vs. Naniwa 12K

Contamination is possible I suppose. My lapping plate is seldom 100% like new clean. I'm not sure how to make it so w/o great effort. (maybe moving to the ksink is all it'd take). After rinsing there is always some stone left. Eventually I soak it and give it a good scrubbing with nylon brush and BKF.

Is there a better way to keep the plate spotless? w/o a dedicated plate for each stone there is a potential for contam.

That same hard ass grit will cut AR stones and most others- so our scrubbers are another source for stray grits. Even if there is not so much cut from a very hard novac. it does get cut.(i think

The best solution I have is to rinse the stone, hands, razor before going to next level. Just as I only rinse the stone of slurry after a scrub.

My goal for grid lapping two hones is not to make it a regular practice. Only a double check. Especially valid if you use some friable stone as a lap. As we all know 2 stones will not make a flat they simply conform to one another. That is ok if one of those is a reference surface or diamond plate.(even these are not always as close as dmt says they are). It is not ideal as a regular practice, with progressively close hones or exact match, as they tend to stick. It could be done if one absolutely really needed to(#$$) but it is a pain. Rarely is as best I can nail down how often I test as it proves itself flatted every time.

I dont think one grit will embed, rinsing cure contamination.

Originally Posted by kevint

As we all know 2 stones will not make a flat they simply conform to one another.

This is another reason, that the rubbing stone to stone is not such a great idea, BUT the reason I used it in the past was more for the smoother surface I thought I needed.... And yes IME it created problems while honing razors...Which is exactly why I stopped doing it... The other thing we are glossing over is that honing stones are designed to release/expose grit where the lapping plates are not, so rubbing two stones together releases two times the amount of grit, maybe this is why there is a better chance of grit transfer (yes I am reaching there) but isn't this exactly why we create a slurry while doing lower grit work, we want more grit released so it cuts better....

I guess I am slightly more anal then most but I do all my grid lapping in the shower, (I know TMI right) and I always, always, work high grit, to low grit, quick lapping is done in the sink under running water and yes the nylon brush is a part of the process

Now as always YMMV, so try it if you like... But I just don't see it as a viable nor even needed solution...

Hey guys good news! I went out and grabbed some norton wet dry sandpaper in 325 and 600 and a granite tile from home depot total of about $15.

The small scratches and ruffness of the 12K is more smooth now. The 220 stone may be good for starting but obviously the trick is to take it to the 325 and then 600 grit. That makes them much smoother or at least gets the small scratches out of it from the more course grit of the 220.

THX

I use the 10k and 12 k naniwas all the time and have come across a peculiar thing - step fro a 10 to 12 and the edge will actually feel DULLER for the first 10 or so strokes. It then progresses from fairly good to (in most cases) diabolically sharp - but you do need the touch of an angel to get the best from it. Now where are my wings...............................?

Originally Posted by gssixgun

This is another reason, that the rubbing stone to stone is not such a great idea, BUT the reason I used it in the past was more for the smoother surface I thought I needed.... And yes IME it created problems while honing razors...Which is exactly why I stopped doing it... The other thing we are glossing over is that honing stones are designed to release/expose grit where the lapping plates are not, so rubbing two stones together releases two times the amount of grit, maybe this is why there is a better chance of grit transfer (yes I am reaching there) but isn't this exactly why we create a slurry while doing lower grit work, we want more grit released so it cuts better....

I guess I am slightly more anal then most but I do all my grid lapping in the shower, (I know TMI right) and I always, always, work high grit, to low grit, quick lapping is done in the sink under running water and yes the nylon brush is a part of the process

Now as always YMMV, so try it if you like... But I just don't see it as a viable nor even needed solution...

sorry to reply. When two pre-lapped stones are brought together; the total is three. If your plate is flat enough, that is very good/. 2 is enough

I wrote that for people with short plates, sandpaper plates, friables, or anyone who might want to check their flatness. Short of showering with hones, who can say what is necessary?

Here, in the land of the pyramid, with dudes switching back and forth between grits as they hone a stray particle is seldom mentioned.

I think a recreational honer can rinse well and relax. Just as one rinses and relaxes after the scrub stone

Originally Posted by blueprinciple

I use the 10k and 12 k naniwas all the time and have come across a peculiar thing - step fro a 10 to 12 and the edge will actually feel DULLER for the first 10 or so strokes. It then progresses from fairly good to (in most cases) diabolically sharp - but you do need the touch of an angel to get the best from it. Now where are my wings...............................?

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I like the phrase, (you do need the touch of an angel to get the best from it) it's very good advice, especially for us heavy-handed guys.

On the old Shapton USA website Harrelson used to have quote up that I like,,"Sharpening is an attempt at perfection. The most interesting aspect of sharpening is the reflection of the infinite."

He is apparently in the process of redesigning the site as the old FAQ where that quote was is gone. Here is a neat article by Harrelson on flatness and cleanliness in relation to honing. If an attempt at perfection isn't your bag I guess it ain't an issue ?

While I have not been using hones long enough to really have a need to lap them to make them flat I do tend to get a little black on them that doesn't rub off with a finger. IS there something to clean them with other than a lapping stone- seems a lapping stone just to clean the swarf off is wasteful.

Originally Posted by Oldfalguy

While I have not been using hones long enough to really have a need to lap them to make them flat I do tend to get a little black on them that doesn't rub off with a finger. IS there something to clean them with other than a lapping stone- seems a lapping stone just to clean the swarf off is wasteful.

I use a small (4x1x1) Arkansas stone and then dunk the stone....

I have tried a 3m pad and it works well too but the Arkie is a cleaner solution...



sorry to reply. When two pre-lapped stones are brought together; the total is three. If your plate is flat enough, that is very good/. 2 is enough

I wrote that for people with short plates, sandpaper plates, friables, or anyone who might want to check their flatness. Short of showering with hones, who can say what is necessary?

Here, in the land of the pyramid, with dudes switching back and forth between grits as they hone a stray particle is seldom mentioned.

I think a recreational honer can rinse well and relax. Just as one rinses and relaxes after the scrub stone

Kev
I guess I need to always preface my answers anymore with "I hone other people's razors, so Yes my standards are higher, and yes scratches down the face of "Your" prized razor is not an acceptable parctice" at least in my eyes it isn't,, I 'll remember to do that in the future just for you ....

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I use a small (4x1x1) Arkansas stone and then dunk the stone....

this is the basic solution to contamination worry. Dunk is a good one. smallest pump sprayer; nice as well, almost as good as running water.

Is that the difference that forms our opposite opinions? Because I will freely admit I do not obsess over a flawless mirrored finish. It does not actually matter what anyone else does; I don't mind in the least. They can present their ideas and practices. I am open-minded enough to evaluate potential improvements. adopt or not as suits my togi-aji.

My point was to offer a solution to the OP. More to the point, we are not talking specifically about production honing or pro services. So what you do to maximize your efficiency, safeguard work in place is not especially helpful to a guy trying to get his set-up running and hone a few blades. You see, I am not trying to correct what you are doing, continue please.

I am always open to critique. I can dish it out, so's I best take it in turn. Contamination is a concern I agree. My station looks more like HMS' from Jimmy's link' with dry slurry and about 1/2 inch mud in my pail. I wet all that down rinsing my hone surface I don't think any can levitate back to my hone after being washed away.