Escher or Thuringian?

[JeffE]

So I bought this stone on eBay, and the seller represented that it was an Escher in his listing. When I posted a photo of it earlier, however, a few members pointed out that it was probably a vintage Thuringian but not an Escher because it clearly does not have that distinctive "Escher & Sohn" or "Escher & Co." label. That was a disappointment to say the least, and I let the seller know that I might be returning the hone based on his overly generous description of the item.

THEN, yet another member said, wait, hold on. It might in fact be an Escher -- but you need to look at the text of the label inside the lid of the box, because there were some Escher hones like this that have a pretty recognizable label but that were not marked with the Escher name.

Anyway, I KNOW that none of this has any effect on the quality of the stone, and I'm not asking these questions for that reason. The real issue here is that the price I paid for the stone might make sense if it actually is an Escher but probably not if it is not.

So, without further ado, here's the exact text of the label, as best I can read it, and with ellipses for what is completely obscured:

Top line "... enuine Water Hone"

Left side of label:

"With this ... known throughout the wo ... ount of its remarkably ... texture of grit, which imparts ... glasting fine edge to every blade."

Right side of label:

"Moisten the surface with w... and ... drawing the blade from heel to point against the edge across the stone, you will produce a fine ... which e...rgens the cutting pr...ies of the ...one.

Bottom line "Made in Germany"

The box has no other markings on it and does NOT say "Genuine Thuringian Hone" or anything else on the outside of the lid. The label is light brown in color, and the ink on it might have been a different color at some point but now looks like dark brown or reddish brown in color.

So what do you think? THANKS IN ADVANCE TO EVERYONE!

[JeffE]

Here's two more pictures that came from the eBay listing. Thanks again for the help.

[Neil Miller]

Like others have said, Escher & Co were just a company - they didn't make the stone, it occurs naturally and was distributed by a lot of other companies. It's a lot like people calling all vacuum cleaners "Hoovers" when Hoover was a maker of vacuum cleaner. "Escher" is used by some people in a generic sense to identify thuringian stones of a certain age. However, fair-play suggests that you only call it an Escher and sell it as such if it has the label, otherwise it is allowable to only call it Escher-like without trying to mislead people - your vendor (I have seen the listing) definitely called it an Escher so he should have something to back-up his claim with.

Yours looks like a good one - it may not say Escher, but Escher is only a name.

Regards,
Neil

[JimmyHAD]

Yours looks like a good one - it may not say Escher, but Escher is only a name.

Regards,
Neil

A rose by any other name ... is still a rose. It does look like a good one. E&Co, Escher, German Water Hone are all labels that have been seen and identified as being 'Eschers'. I have a Muller that is a kicka$$ hone and everyone looks down their nose at them because they came later and are still available. You have to lay a razor on there and get to know the hone. Probably be first rate.

[JeffE]

Thank you very much for the advice, and I will take it to heart.

Just so you understand, what probably appears to be overweening concern about the label on my part is really just plain insecurity about whether or not I got ripped off by this seller. To put it simply, the guy got me to bid much larger than I would have because he called the thing an "Escher", and I've seen the prices of other authentic "Eschers" on eBay and felt like I was comfortable with the amount I bid. Then I find out it might not really be an Escher, but just a really nice vintage hone, and that makes me start to rethink what I paid, which maybe is not much to some people, but it's still a lot to me.

So bottom line -- I will give the hone a test run tonight and see if it's worth keeping, but in the meantime, your comments about whether or not this is an authentic Escher are good therapy for me. Thanks!!

[nun2sharp]

I am sure it is a good hone either way, but if you paid extra for an Escher, you should get an Escher. The call is yours to make as to wether or not to accept the hone and if you decide to return it I couldn't blame you. If the seller lists it as an Escher it should be marked in an obvious fashion.

[JimmyHAD]

Kelly has a good point. OTOH, if you aren't happy with what you paid for the hone would you rather pay upwards of $250 for a good labeled Escher ? Then you have the issue of end labels and colors. If it doesn't have an end label you aren't totally sure whether you have a blue/green, yellow/green or light green. Dark blue is pretty easy to identify with or without the label.

Then if you're anal about this stuff as I am you will want to know which is the color to have. So because you won't be able to get any conclusive opinions on which color Escher is best you'll have to have all of them.

Also If it does have an end label along with the bottom label it will probably take more of your hard earned $ to bring it home. So sometimes you're better off with the devil you know than with the devil you don't know. Just something to consider.

[JeffE]

Laughing my a$$ off at Jimmy's response. Yea, sometime it's good to let it go.

I probably would have given up a while ago too, but Dylandog kind of got me wound up yesterday about the text of the label. He said that he could identify the hidden Escher-nature of the hone by looking at the text. The thing is -- the text does match the text of a label that gugi posted on another thread, but gugi's has a little "E&Co." cup on it, and mine does not. I think I've exhausted the limits of this one for now.

[dylandog]

I probably would have given up a while ago too, but Dylandog kind of got me wound up yesterday about the text of the label. He said that he could identify the hidden Escher-nature of the hone by looking at the text. The thing is -- the text does match the text of a label that gugi posted on another thread, but gugi's has a little "E&Co." cup on it, and mine does not. I think I've exhausted the limits of this one for now.

Sorry Jeff, my comment yesterday was maybe a bit misleading.... Let me explain: the fact that your text matches Gugi's E. & Co. hone, as well as the one I used to have, makes me think that yes, your hone was probably also boxed and sold by E. & Co. But this was sort of a stupid thing to tell you because who cares what I think. The only point at which any of this will make a difference is if you sell it, and in that case it's what Ebay bidders think that matters. Right now, what seems to matter to Ebay bidders is the magic word, "Escher." In a pinch, "E. & Co." in tiny print and the cup will do. I'm sorry you don't have either – – but I'll tell you this, you've got a damn fine finishing hone there, so enjoy!

[JeffE]

So can I ask this without getting into too much trouble here? I have a chance to return this stone to the seller because of the misdescription that he used to sell it. I've asked the seller for an adjustment to the purchase price, but he says, no way, just send my stone back. I paid $167 for it, which is a LOT and even a little foolish for a stone that does not have the famed "Escher" label. Should I send the stone back and get my money or keep it? What would you do? You can assume that the stone works just great (which I will confirm tonight). So great stone, but no label and super-high price tag.