Thread: eschers

I'm with thebigspendur on laps. Somewhere in the 30 to 50 range. I still like to do the slurry but a light slurry and dilute. The abrasive isn't garnet, it is quartz. What that means down here on the ground is beyond my expertise. As far as the Escher with diluted slurry compared to the coticule, to me it is a different stone so it is hard to compare the two. A lot finer IMO. As for Lynn getting better edges on an Escher with water only ..... Lynn could get better edges than me with a Chinese 12k and me with my Escher. It ain't the arrow, it's the indian. If I had Lynn's hand, and knowledge, I'd hone without slurry too. He knows what he is doing and I'm still trying to figure it out.

On a comparative basis I am a beginner here, but the number of laps for me is determined by the feel and the sound of the stone. That is why I like a natural stone like the Coticule. I use a slurry and the Coticule is just in the middle of the progression that I use. The feedback is invaluable in determining the quality of the bevel that I have and sets up the polishing phase of my honing session. I don't do a lot of razors but they come out pretty well and it was not till I got my Coticule that I got the connection between an excellent bevel and the final edge.


Take Care,
Richard

I'm curious - Lynn and those of you who said you have shifted from slurry to just wate ron naturals - what exactly is the reason? Is it because you find the water-only gives you a finer edge? Or are there other reasons as well?

My understanding, and - I *think* my experience (mostly with Belgian and Japanese stones) is that slurries make the cutting faster, but also introduce an element of instability because it can be difficult to control the thickness of the slurry very precisely. Now, I have generally found that in the "finishing" stages the precision issue isn't much of a problem. There is also the idea that with most of the japanese naturals if you have a slurry, the slurry will break down as you hone and you can maximize the potential fineness that way. So far I havent been able to conclusively figure out how much of a difference that "breaking down" can make.

One other thing: one japanese stone expert told me that whereas usually a slurry decreases the effective grit slightly (say, 2-3K on average), with the very hardest, finest japanese naturals a slurry actually *increases* the effective grit by 2-3K, so one has to use a slurry to get the maximum fineness out of certain japanese naturals.

well i took a shave ready coticule honed razor. I rehoned with slurry just 50 laps. the razor shaved with resistants. I no for a fact you will get a finer edge with water, there is no way i would finish with slurry on coticule. With escher i'm not sure. I received my escher and have done the same thing. The shave was fine no dulling efect at all. So you carn't compare these two stones. i could not pass hht test on coti slurry after stropping. I coul;d of water on same razor. The scher after 50 laps on milky slurry. after stropping i could still pass the hht. This just tells me the escher does'nt slurry dull, like coticule does. Coticule has to be finished with water to be able to get a great shave.
when i have sahved of escher a thew more times with and with out slurry i will get a better idea of what i prefer.

there are some pictures of escher with slurry edge and without on srp some where. Both edges look the same. The coti edge with slurry looks sandblasted and with water looks much better. Big differances.

So realy the qquestion is to those that have tryed escher slurry and water for finishing only . have yo noticed a differance. If you shaved of slurry and thought boy this as took the keeness down , you just wouild'nt do it again. then by using water and you find the keeness is back to normal, you'd think i'm sticking to water.
I will only use as finishing hone. I will use my coticule to do the 4k work plus till i am able to sahve . Then i will add escher to see if there is a differance.

I don't use jnats. its took me long enough to get my head around a coticule

For what is worth I played with Turingian and and Escher both with slurry and the shaves are more than satisfying. I am going to test water only finish, but so far all my nat stones, Turingian/Escher/ Asagi slurry finish seems to give better results.

one thing i noticed. with slurry escher cuts quiker for sure

From what I have heard (I don't know a Thuringian or Escher,YET) is that the slurry just helps the stone cut faster but without harshing the edge, which is why some members finish on an Escher with Slurry even after a 10K hone to good results and a keener finish.

Well slurry increases the cutting speed of any stone if I understand correctly. When Bart began to post about setting a bevel using a coticule with slurry I tried to duplicate that with my light green (labeled) Escher, my fastest cutter among all of the various Escher colors. It wasn't happening. OTOH, for finishing the method of generating slurry and diluting it until you've gotten down to clear water seems to work very well for me.

I am not a geologist or an expert on the composition of garnet versus quartz within the coticule or Thuringan/Escher stones but it seems to me that the quartz in the latter is much finer and therefore beginning the honing with slurry on an Escher is effective. As I've noted in the past, I am following the instructions that the Escher company printed on their labels. If it were not advantageous to use the rubbing stone and create a 'lather' I doubt if they would have suggested it.

Originally Posted by mainaman

For what is worth I played with Turingian and and Escher both with slurry and the shaves are more than satisfying. I am going to test water only finish, but so far all my nat stones, Turingian/Escher/ Asagi slurry finish seems to give better results.

I have honed thousands of razors using both slurry and no slurry on naturals and at this point I have been finishing, following the 8K, with just water on the Coticule (my least favorite, but still a decent stone), Asagi, Kiita, Ohzuku and Escher. I have found the shaves to be definitely smoother and more consistent than when I use a slurry. The razors actually generate a light natural slurry after you do a few, but I really try to keep the stone rinsed with spritzing and it works very well.

Have fun,

Lynn

Gary - Just to say, yes, of course with the coticule it is a different story - there the slurry definitely lowers the effective grit (also increasing cutting speed, like with other stones).