Thread: 12K Chinese Stone

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I think that is a great idea, but even that has a limitation as depth,,, All things being equal a slight difference in pressure/direction would change the depth of the scratch patterns... Zowada has some great pics here and there are more pics around the froum by other people that all seem to tell different stories when it comes to scratch patterns... Looking right there, in the Wiki, I am seeing that the $34 Chinese is the smoothest finisher made, but my face says otherwise...
I am just not all that convinced that this "Art of Honing" can ever be very scientific... JMHO


To the OP:

As you can see in those pics, the Chinese stone can be a great finisher, But it requires many more laps then most other stones, which with every lap increases the odds of a mis-cue that messes up a lot of the foundation work...

Interesting! - I am pretty new to this and trying to understand grit-finess seems only to get more difficult the more I read!...charming in a way! - I like when things are not all science but also feeling, test and trial and ultimately art!...

Anyway! - how many laps should one expect to do on a C12K comming from a ca. 8K hone?

Originally Posted by PapaBull

I've done series of tests with the 200X scope similar to what Tim has on his site, but I was thinking more along the lines of higher resolution and 1000 to 1600x magnification from an industrial scope. While I feel there would still be some "deviation" based on scratch depth and what have you, comparing samples handled in the same fashion would at least put them on a somewhat level playing field. Additional study of the abrasive structure at high magnification can tell us a lot, too. And while to some degree, the mystery of honing micro-edges may be part of the appeal, there's some value to be had in seeing what's really going on, in my opinion.

I've got some 200,000 grit abrasive coming in this week that I'm really looking forward to checking out.

Now that side of the equation would be very very interesting to me, with actual pics of the stone surface at high mag...
Now this is getting way more interesting I wonder if you could quantify the scratch pattern, sorta like what JoeD was saying, as to a actual test block at a constant pressure for each test stone ....

Originally Posted by MadZen

Interesting! - I am pretty new to this and trying to understand grit-finess seems only to get more difficult the more I read!...charming in a way! - I like when things are not all science but also feeling, test and trial and ultimately art!...

Anyway! - how many laps should one expect to do on a C12K comming from a ca. 8K hone?

Since this is a natural hone and we all hone differently, it
may make sense to start out with half the laps you used on the 8K.
Try with and without lather.

If the edge improves over the 8K try more laps
until it stops improving the edge.

You may also find that it hones better as a touch up
hone... i.e. do not follow the Norton 8K but shave
off the Norton 8K and touch up on the C12K once a week,
once a month.

Someone here mentioned that he found that 100 laps
were needed for his razors.

As we know from Belgian hones the way that a hone
scratches depends a lot on how it is used.

Originally Posted by MadZen

Interesting! - I am pretty new to this and trying to understand grit-finess seems only to get more difficult the more I read!...charming in a way! - I like when things are not all science but also feeling, test and trial and ultimately art!...

Anyway! - how many laps should one expect to do on a C12K comming from a ca. 8K hone?

Again here comes the vague answer, of as many as it takes, but in reality somewhere between 30-100...There are just to many variables to try and get closer than that.. Sorry


Actually Tom's answer above is way better than mine

Forum Bump!

Has anyone ever tried these stones? Any beginner tips? Do they normally come with a slurry stone? I see some sources say yes. If not, what type of slurry stone should I get? Should I chip off a piece? Mine is en route, along with the Norton 4k/8k. I cant wait!

Some of the Guangxi stones have proved to be good finishers but the strike rate isn't all that good. I've owned 2 examples and both are sub-standard, that is they do not improve an edge that has been honed to a satisfactory level on a Norton 8k. You may have more luck, at least they're not expensive.

BTW, the opinions on my hones don't come from brief tests. Myself and another very experienced honer have given them every chance and the b&%g#s still don't perform

So, as with everything else in this game, your mileage may vary - good luck.

Originally Posted by dghardyjr

Forum Bump!

Has anyone ever tried these stones?

You're kidding , right ?

Lottsa info here:
Chinese Guangxi Hones - Straight Razor Place Library

I skimmed over the link and it looks like a wealth of info! Ill check it out!

The bottom line is they are a crap-shoot. Some can polish, some can’t, they are natural and all are different, some from one side to the other. They are hard stones and will need to be lapped flat and smooth.

Some can be improved by burnishing like a hard Ark, not using slurry, they do not slurry easily and the slurry is not friable.

Most are not finer than 8k. You would have a more consistent and comfortable edge stropping on razor quality Chrome Oxide after a good Norton 8K edge.

Adding a Natural finisher is not recommended for a new guy learning to hone. The finish stone always gets the blame, and rarely is the issue caused at the finish, but at getting the bevels to meet evenly and fully.

I've got one of these stones. First thing you need is the will power to lap it. They're hard as h#!! And mine came rough sawn which meant a LOT of lapping. Then you need the will power to polish it. I worked mine up to 2000 grit sand paper, then hit it with both the 4 and 8k sides of my Norton hone. Now that I can see my reflection in the stone, it puts a pretty good edge on things. The last thing you'll need is a good deal of patience, because it cuts slower than molasses in January.

It should come with a slurry stone. Polish one side of that while you're at it, and chamfer it's edges so you don't dig into the hone while building slurry. Do the first set of strokes with a medium slurry, and water it down as your polish gets better. After about 100 to 150 strokes you should be good. Did I mention this thing cuts slow? Because it cuts slow.

It took me a lot of trial and error to figure out how to use the C12k effectively. Now that I've got it right, I love the hone. Whether it's worth the work to save the money you'd spend on a faster cutting finisher I can't say. I don't have a Belgian coticule or Thuringian to compare it to. And it seems to be much like my small black Arkansas as far as cutting speed and final polish goes. I still want an Arkansas hone, but I'm content with my C12K for the time being.

Edit: my slurry stone is made of the same hard-as-frikkin-diamond stone as the hone itself. If it doesn't have one, I might suggest using it without the slurry. Might cut even slower, might not. I'm still not entirely convinced that using one speeds the process up any, it's just fun to play with.