Thread: Hone question

I see in the SRP Hone Database there is a Jade hone rated at 20-30K grit. I was going to ask the user that posted the page for more information on this but they are now a band user. Dose any one have experience with jade as a hone?
I'm curious about this because Jade is actually one of my favorite stones and we picked that as our daughters middle name. So if they are good stones It would be cool to get one.

I don't know about the one in the data base. I just did an advanced search for "jade" under hones and came up with a few threads where the word was used in passing but no jade hones. Send a PM to A_S and ask him. If it was ever used as a hone anywhere on earth he will know about it.

Reading the description, it sound slike this is literally just a chunk of jade.

-I cut this hone out of a larger slab of Jade that was brought to me from a quarry on the Wahi Pounamu — "The Place of Greenstone".

Originally Posted by gandrw

I see in the SRP Hone Database there is a Jade hone rated at 20-30K grit. I was going to ask the user that posted the page for more information on this but they are now a band user. Dose any one have experience with jade as a hone?
I'm curious about this because Jade is actually one of my favorite stones and we picked that as our daughters middle name. So if they are good stones It would be cool to get one.

I doubt that a Jade hone is anything to aspire to.
A jade color hone perhaps.

Jade is a valuable material and a slab of jade that was free of
defects to the degree that it would make a good hone would be in
serious demand from the gem world.

From the mineral point of view jade is one of two different minerals.
"Jadeite and nephrite differ in both crystalline structure and chemical composition. In both minerals, the microscopic crystals are tightly interlocked to form a compact aggregate. Jadeite is a silicate of sodium and aluminum and is classed as a pyroxene. Nephrite is a silicate of calcium and magnesium belonging to the amphibole group of minerals; it is usually called a form of Tremolite."
The Mineral Jade (DesertUSA)


Jadeite is softer than quartz. i.e. softer than an Arkansas hone.
Nephrite jade is slightly softer than Jadeite.

Jade slabs about barber hone size can be purchased from
gem lapidary supply shops. I see slabs on Ebay for sale.
It should be possible to glue one to a supporting durable base
lap flat and give it a whirl. A dark muddy green jade is
a lot less expensive than a translucent apply green jade.

Years ago a Wyoming jade slabs was used for lamps. The color
was nice with a light behind it but all the cracks and features
made it almost worthless as gem material.

Tom I have a limited, to say the least, knowledge of geology but it seems that quartz or garnet are the usual abrasives in hones that are well known for their effectiveness in sharpening and finishing razors and what have you. Is there any other substance found in natural hones that is as effective ?

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Tom I have a limited, to say the least, knowledge of geology but it seems that quartz or garnet are the usual abrasives in hones that are well known for their effectiveness in sharpening and finishing razors and what have you. Is there any other substance found in natural hones that is as effective ?

Well a steel file is about mohs 6.5. If there are a lot
of carbides it will be a lot harder. Carbides are hard....

Quartz at 7 will worry steel nicely. It is hard to find fine
grain quartz rich stones.

Garnets like the ones in Coticule hones are mostly harder than
quartz.. 6.5-7.5. Coticule garnets have a morphology (shape)
that lets them hone smoother than their absolute size might
indicate.

Lightly metamorphosed sedimentary rocks, including slates
are interesting. They develop a long list of possible minerals
some of which are hard enough to cut steel and if the grain
size is small and uniform make fine hones. Kyanite, sillmanite,
staurolite in terrain like a sub amphibolite grade of regionally
metamorphosed pelitic rocks might make hones.

The hard part to find is a uniform fine grained hone.
Minerals harder than quartz are common enough but
the fine grain uniform versions are rare.

IIRC Alchemist had a block of that and said it works very well for finishing knives, no word on razors though.
here found the thread
http://www.foodieforums.com/vbulleti...highlight=jade

Originally Posted by mainaman

IIRC Alchemist had a block of that and said it works very well for finishing knives, no word on razors though.
here found the thread
So pretty - it's almost a shame to sharpen on...

That is one pretty hunk of stone ! I'd keep that whether it worked for razors, knives or not.

Oh Oh maybe we should revisit the beryl hone.

Here is the discussion that A_S (Alex) and I had through PM.

Originally Posted by gandrw
Hi my name is Greg I'm sorta new here and Jimmy HAD told me you would be the go to guy on this topic.
I read a post in the Hone data base that Jade could be used as a Hone and had a Grit level of 20-30K I love Jade and have actually picked it as my daughters middle name so if it would be a good hone I'd love to know. Thank you in advance for any input.



Hi Greg,

Welcome to the forum, if you haven't seen their website already, these are the guys who sell the NZ Jade featured in the hone database http://www.tcblades.com/natural_whetstones I have a small hone of NZ jade, and also an irregularly shaped piece of white Jade, which is supposedly Chinese in origin. These can be used successfully as hones, but they can be very difficult to use. Personally, I wouldn't recommend them on soft steel or heavy grinds. Being such a hard, close grained stone they offer very little feedback, and no draw, so it is very hard to gauge how the edge is interacting with the stone, and consequently with softer steel it is very easy to roll the edge and damage it badly enough that you have to start over by setting a new bevel. With a harder steel though, these can work very well, you don't use them to refine the edge, but to add some additional polish. When I use the Jade in my routine, I go to it after the Shapton 30k, which is a stone I've always found to leave a rather harsh edge; the Jade smooths the edge out considerably, without reducing the sharpness. This is the most effective way of using the Jade, but you do need a very light touch, roughly half the weight of the blade. One thing I've been experimenting with lately is using a mixture of three parts glycerin to one part surgical spirits instead of water, because the Jade isn't very porous I've found that I've been getting better results with that mix instead of water.

My wife and I are travelling at the moment, so I don't have any of my reference material to hand, but if memory serves me correctly, I think that the use of Jade whetstones by Point Barrow Eskimos is discussed in the 9th volume of the Annual Report of the United States American Ethnology Bureau, I can't remember the page number though, I'm afraid.

Hope this is of some help and interest to you.

Kindest regards,
Alex



Quote:
Originally Posted by gandrw
Thank you very much for the fast reply especially when you are traveling the information was helpful and interesting indeed. I will check out the site you mentioned and from what I understand you are saying this is something that would be used instead of a pasted strop or a balsa hone with crox then. Is that correct. Or would you use it after the 30k and before a pasted or balsa.
BTW right now I have a 1-5-8-12K Naniwa set of super stones and am just starting to learn to hone and shave with straights but as these thing tend to go I am very much hooked and looking forward to my next steps in learning. I use a SRD modular strop with the hard felt and .5 micron diamond spray for touch ups.
Talk to you soon. Greg



Hi Greg,

In theory it is used in a similar fashion to pastes, but if i do use the Jade, I don't follow with anything else. It performs at it's best as the final step after particularly hard stones, which will leave a very sharp, but often harsh edge. As well as the Shapton 30k, I find that the Jade works very well after a Sigma Power 10k; this is the hardest stone I've tried, much harder than Novaculite even, and it performs well above the quoted 10k. I use the Jade after these because it doesn't degrade the edge, but will add a level of smoothness that isn't there coming off of either of the stones I mentioned. The lack of smoothness isn't really a problem with the Naniwa 12k, being a softer stone it is more user friendly, and produces a much smoother edge. Another synthetic I use regularly is a 20k Gokumyou, whilst it is harder than the Naniwa, it isn't as hard as the Shapton or Sigma stones, so I don't notice much difference if I use the Jade after this stone either. If you're looking for additional edge refinement after the Naniwa 12k, pastes would be the best choice, either a mix of Handamerican Liquid and Powder Chrome Oxide on leather or Handamerican or SRD Diamond Paste on Hard Wool Felt like you have already.

Kindest regards,
Alex




Re: Hone Question
Thank you for the information it has been very useful. I will stick with what I have for now. And in the future if I get harder hones then I'll consider a Jade as a finisher.
Also do you mind if I copy and paste our PM's into the thread that I originally started to find information in. I could also omit any sections if you wanted.
Greg

Hi Greg,

I've got no problem with you posting the PM's in full.

Kindest regards,
Alex