Thread: Vintage Ayreshire Pocket hone?

VINTAGE AYERSHIRE POCKET HONE SHARPENING STONE - eBay (item 330444571009 end time Jun-26-10 11:07:15 PDT)

Thoughts on this? Vintage Ayreshire pocket hone. Could this be a Water of Ayr?

Interested to hear what you think.

All stones coming from the Dalmore Quarry, or retailed by the company, were labelled with the company name and were known early on as Water of Ayr (although these were actually the stones we know today as the Tam O Shanter). Later on they were identified as Tam O Shanter, Montgomerie Hone Stone and Soutar Johnny Hone, the name Water of Ayr being ultimately applied to the blue/ black hone coming from the Meikledale mine. What is pictured in the auction listing is a hone that came from Enterkine Quarry in the parish of Tarbolton. These stones were worked by the Smith family after they had been displaced from the Dalmore quarry by William Heron in 1815. They set themselves up as rivals to the Dalmore honeworks, although there hones were considered to be of an inferior quality. The stone itself is a hard, baked mudstone, I have one of these and whilst it is very fine, it is obvious that no effort was made to finish the hone to a high level of quality before it was packed for sale.

Kindest regards,
Alex

Great info as always Alex. Here is a pic of a WOA I got from Coully. The pic is from Couly's classified ad, I'm lazy. The hone is 4x1x1/4 and you can hone a razor on it but it is obviously not an ideal size. It is blackish but not inky black and it has the speckled look typical of the Tams.

Originally Posted by A_S

All stones coming from the Dalmore Quarry, or retailed by the company, were labelled with the company name and were known early on as Water of Ayr (although these were actually the stones we know today as the Tam O Shanter). Later on they were identified as Tam O Shanter, Montgomerie Hone Stone and Soutar Johnny Hone, the name Water of Ayr being ultimately applied to the blue/ black hone coming from the Meikledale mine. What is pictured in the auction listing is a hone that came from Enterkine Quarry in the parish of Tarbolton. These stones were worked by the Smith family after they had been displaced from the Dalmore quarry by William Heron in 1815. They set themselves up as rivals to the Dalmore honeworks, although there hones were considered to be of an inferior quality. The stone itself is a hard, baked mudstone, I have one of these and whilst it is very fine, it is obvious that no effort was made to finish the hone to a high level of quality before it was packed for sale.

Kindest regards,
Alex

Im astonished by your knowledge of hones. Your like a hone encyclopedia. I actually won that hone - I put in a bid that I never expected to win. HAD has me and I can't stop wanting all the natural stones there are. Its horrible, like a crazy illness.
Anyway, you wouldn't happen to know what that hone would be like to use?

Thanks

Originally Posted by Scipio

Im astonished by your knowledge of hones. Your like a hone encyclopedia. I actually won that hone - I put in a bid that I never expected to win. HAD has me and I can't stop wanting all the natural stones there are. Its horrible, like a crazy illness.
Anyway, you wouldn't happen to know what that hone would be like to use?

Thanks

It's not a hone I've played around with a great deal, unfortunately. I got mine from a collector of the decorated Mauchline boxes that you often see the Dalmore hones in. These boxes, along with other sundries such as snuff boxes, were produced by the Smith family, but the boxes for the stones sold as Ayrshire Hones are nowhere near the quality of the boxes produced for the Dalmore hones, so I was able to persuade the collector to sell his one, as it was a stone I'd been looking for, for some time. The collector told me the hone was unused, and I have no reason to doubt that, but having removed it from it's box it was the worst finished hone I've come across, and I've had Hindostan whetstones, so trust me when I say it was bad. Although some effort had been made to produce a workable surface on the upper face of the stone, the sides were chipped and the back was incredibly uneven, also the top of the stone sloped at a 19 degree angle from left to right, (I had a protractor and I was bored), so it took a lot of grinding and frustration to get a true surface on top, without cracking the stone because of the uneven bottom. When I finally got the stone to where it needed to be, I could see that the potential was there, but it wasn't a very satisfying stone in use as there was no real feedback, apart from the scratchy feedback you tend to get from very hard stones. Also, one thing this stone did, which I've not seen very often before, was for the water to bead and run off the surface; because it is such a hard stone soaking had no real effect, so I ended up finishing my experiments honing under running water. which at the time was the best way of using it. My one example is a pretty fast cutter in view of how hard it is, and it's certainly capable of improving an edge in the 12k to 16k range, but you have to be very light handed, as the stone will highlight any flaws in your technique very quickly. I probably sound overly negative at this point, but I certainly don't mean to discourage you, like I said before there is a lot of potential in the stone because it is very fine, and I think that someone who appreciates and knows how to get the best from a very hard stone, and who is willing to experiment, would likely enjoy this stone in the end. One thing that I've mentioned in a couple of posts previously, and in pm's to other members, is the use of a solution of 3 parts glycerin to 1 part surgical alcohol in lieu of honing oil, because this stone isn't porous I think that this might work well and would eliminate the beading problem. I'm still away from my collection at the moment, but it's something I will try when I get the opportunity.

Kindest regards,
Alex

Excellent news. So it has the potential to be up there with the Eschers? 12-16K range was far more than I expected. I thought it would be like a Tam O'shanter in the 6-8K range.

Looks like this one will need some serious flattening. I thought the pitch may have just fallen into the box as the seller claims it is loose - your experience with it is scaring my DMT8C as I type this!

Originally Posted by Scipio

Looks like this one will need some serious flattening. I thought the pitch may have just fallen into the box as the seller claims it is loose - your experience with it is scaring my DMT8C as I type this!

This hone made my lapping equipment nostalgic for the time I lapped a Surgical Black Arkansas, but in fairness I think the lapping was made a lot harder by the uneven nature of the stone, it was hard to strike a workable balance between enough pressure to flatten the stone, without applying too much pressure on the thin areas to compromise the integrity of the stone; this problem was further compounded by the incline on the top surface of hone, so to be fair one in a slightly better state might be easier to work with initially. With harder stones like this, I've found it easier to work on it in sessions, doing a bit at a time and then putting the stone down before I get too frustrated and hurl it at the nearest available wall. Doing it gradually like this takes away a lot of the frustration, and you know that ultimately you'll get the stone where you need it, or die trying.

In terms of comparing this stone to an Escher, whilst they will both take an edge from these higher grit synthetics and offer some improvement, the Escher is certainly more user friendly and it adds a level of smoothness to the edge which I didn't get from the Ayrshire. In all fairness though, I think would have got on better with the Ayrshire hone if I'd spent more time experimenting with it; it certainly added sharpness to the edge after a 12k to 16k synthetic, but I think I should have spent more time with this stone to get the requisite feel for using it that would have probably added more polish and smoothness to the edge.

Kindest regards,
Alex

I received it today. It is tiny. Very small - 91mm x 23mm x 3mm thick. (3.6 inches by just under an inch)

Here it is prior to lapping.


Post lapping.


It lapped fairly easily in the space of 5 mins on my DMTC. I then finished it on a King 800 which it was softer than of course.

It doesnt 'bead' like yours Alex, and I know of this feeling too well from certain Barber hones. It whets more like a coti or Escher than my Charnley. It gives feedback between a coti and a charnley sort of feeling - less raspy than a Charnley and not as smooth as an Escher.

I tested it after a charnley finished razor and it did not seem to degrade the edge, even after a quick shave test. The same with an Escher. It improved the edge after a coticule. Leaves a high mirror polish. Question is what is it??

Compared to a Tam O'shanter:

Impressive little stone is my summary. I only wish I had a larger one, for this is tiny, yet it produces a better edge for me than a Charnley and comparable to my Escher after a mere 50 laps following my finest coticule.

I have been playing with it for a couple of days now on 10+ razors. What is this little thing? If Sham or Jimmy lived in the UK, I'd have been round with it long ago!