Thread: hazy vs shiny lapping

As some of you may be aware, I'm starting to lap the hones I've picked up over the past month. They've mostly been done with a DMT D8C and then some 600 grit wet/dry. They're flat, and as far as I can tell, work very well.

Now that my prized Charnley has been lapped flat, it's a bit hazier than it was. I had started using some 1200 grit paper to shine it up, but gave up after a while (it's very slow).

After reading some gemstone information around the web, and after recalling that jeweler's rouge is used by jewelers to polish stones, I'm considering using that (or some of my many polishing compounds) to bring out a the shine on my CF. I'm concerned, however about turning my hone red!

Does anyone else prefer a shiny hone? and how did you polish it?

Hi Mark,

Glad to hear your Charnley arrived safely!

I'm interested to hear other guys thoughts here. I just used my 325 DMT for everything, as you know. It did make my CF a bit more hazy on the face, but it performs well and puts a great edge on a razor, so I'm not really concerned about it.

But if someone else has found that a shiny surface gives a better result, then I'm interested to hear.

I never thought to polish a hone as you might a gem. I don't know what the result would be as far as the effectiveness of the hone being enhanced or decreased. I've rarely gone beyond the 325 that the D8C and GDLP are rated at. I do have a 600 grit plate and used it on a finisher after flattening on a coarser hone once but I haven't since.

I do know a couple of guys who go from a coarse lapping up to 1k grit wet & dry paper but I've never felt the need or the inclination. I feel that a bit of coarseness might aid in honing even in the finishing stage. A 12 or a 16k flattened with a 325 might be more efficient than the same hone flattened with 1k sandpaper. I might be wrong on that as I've not experimented and compared the two. I'm thinking Shapton knows something about hones and sharpening. They made their high priced GDLP a 325 grit for a reason.

Yes, the Charnley arrived safely. The guy at the place with the things was right: this hone is enormous, and it's beautiful. I'll post some pictures a bit later.

But Stu and Jimmy, if you recall I've never been quite comfortable with the idea of lapping with such a course plate. Logic tells me that if a 325 grit scratch pattern exists on my hone, then there is less stone above the scratches left to polish my blade. Stones should be polished as shiny as possible. More stone will touch the blade, and as the slurry builds and continues to flatten and polish it, it will continue to bring more stone to the surface. So start out as shiny as possible. But that's just a theory.

So I'm going to continue to lap the CF on 1200 until it's like a mirror. It's unlikely that I'll remove too much stone with the 1200, so it seems safe to me. But it's the pastes that seem the most interesting. Like many of us, I use various grades of polishing compound to polish blades, and many of them are used by hobbyists to polish rocks and gemstones. What I'm concerned with is loading up the stone with red polish! Just as a stone absorbs swarf and oil and water, wouldn't it absorb polish?

I did pick up a CF slurry stone from Neil (thanks!). By the way, it takes forever to raise a slurry. I gave that up too. Perhaps I'll try it out on that. I don't have any other natural slurry stones other than my CF and Coti. hmmm... do any of you have any spare slurry stones lying around to try it polishing compound?

If you are using a 1200 plate be aware that DMT recommends their x and xx for lapping. They grudgingly endorse the C (325) as well but specify using any of them under running water. Sham, for one, ruined a 1200 dmt using it to lap waterstones. If you go to Dia Sharp's website you'll find the info in their FAQ. They are the maker of the DMT plates. I think your right to be concerned that the rouge would get into the stone. Not necessarily a bad thing as it is also an abrasive. OTOH, if I am honing with a Charnley I want to know it is the Charnley doing the work with no assistance from another abrasive.

Originally Posted by MarkinLondon

But Stu and Jimmy, if you recall I've never been quite comfortable with the idea of lapping with such a course plate. Logic tells me that if a 325 grit scratch pattern exists on my hone, then there is less stone above the scratches left to polish my blade. Stones should be polished as shiny as possible. More stone will touch the blade, and as the slurry builds and continues to flatten and polish it, it will continue to bring more stone to the surface. So start out as shiny as possible. But that's just a theory.

Mark
what you are saying above is correct.
Lets think a little differently.
after 325 you will have scratches and less surface for the blade contact.
You can go higher until 1k or more doesn't matter by using x stones.
what did you accomplish is flat pirfect surface.
(in the other hand what you have done waste of hone)
Now lets say you stop on 325.
Now you are having flat surface but less with contact surface.
You use your blade hone it. Slowly you will flat out the stone.
From 325 to flat you may hone at least 100 razors on Charnley.
What did you get in this case?
More razor honed on your stone.
Now please pick up which option you like and good luck.

Personally i will never ever go above 325 in any hone except finishing (soft stones eschers).
i will make it flat 1k level.
Rest stones never goes behind 325.
hope this help.

What Jimmy said is very True. Don't use 1200 on charnley your dmt won't last longer then 3 minutes.

Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

What Jimmy said is very True. Don't use 1200 on charnley your dmt won't last longer then 3 minutes.

OTOH, your DMT will be nice and smooth.

Easy guys, I wasn't using a 1200 plate. I'm using 1200 paper!

Sham, I agree: using the hone will eventually flatten it perfectly. And yes, lapping it finer will waste precious stone. But I only own a dozen razors, so while I don't intend to waste the hone, I don't suppose that I'll be subjecting it to the same level of use that professional honers do.

I'm going to lap the CF on the 1200 paper for a while, probably a little bit every few days until it looks shiny. it's perfectly flat now, and frankly, I gave it the shave test last night, and it's the single best shave I've ever had. I love my Charnley and will never replace it. Everything I've ever read about it is true.

oh.. another thing: check out the web for gemstone polishing and basic jewelry making. You'll find a great deal of useful information. Just as the knife-making sites often have a nugget of information that help the razor people, so will the jewelry folks contribute to honers.

m

I'm not inclined to do it myself, but what I would like to see is, lap he Charnley to the 325 level and hone a few razors on it. Shave with them and then lap it to the 1200 level and hone a few and shave. See if there is a discernible difference.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I never thought to polish a hone as you might a gem. I don't know what the result would be as far as the effectiveness of the hone being enhanced or decreased. I've rarely gone beyond the 325 that the D8C and GDLP are rated at. I do have a 600 grit plate and used it on a finisher after flattening on a coarser hone once but I haven't since.

I do know a couple of guys who go from a coarse lapping up to 1k grit wet & dry paper but I've never felt the need or the inclination. I feel that a bit of coarseness might aid in honing even in the finishing stage. A 12 or a 16k flattened with a 325 might be more efficient than the same hone flattened with 1k sandpaper. I might be wrong on that as I've not experimented and compared the two. I'm thinking Shapton knows something about hones and sharpening. They made their high priced GDLP a 325 grit for a reason.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I'm not inclined to do it myself, but what I would like to see is, lap he Charnley to the 325 level and hone a few razors on it. Shave with them and then lap it to the 1200 level and hone a few and shave. See if there is a discernible difference.

I'll do that, sortof.

I lapped it on the DMT 8C / 325 plate and then for several minutes on some 600 grit paper. As I said above, the shave was great.

I plan on using the 1200 for the foreseeable future, and I'll post the results here.

As for polishing the hones with paste, we'll have a better idea if it's required after the 1200 paper test. My sense is that the smoother the stone, the smoother the blade, and the shave. We'll find out. If anyone has a natural slurry stone, a spare perhaps, I'd be happy to polish it up using paste to see if it's even possible. My belief, after reading all the goofy gemstone sites, is that it will work just fine, assuming that the stone doesn't retain the paste.