Thread: Coticule Edge: Sharpening v. Finishing

I have honed a razor from bevel setting to finishing on a coti as well as setting the bevel on synthetics and synthetics to the finisher, which was a coti. I can not feel the difference once both are finished on the coti, when done correctly. The issue is knowing how thick a slurry to create and when to dilute and how much to dilute and how to tell when to dilute. If you rush the process the razor will not be as sharp as setting the edge with synthetics where it is easier to tell when the edge is ready for the next hone. It's easier to achieve the optimal edge off synthetics. You can get there with the coti but you need to be more conscious of what is happening at the edge and when to progress to less slurry.

Originally Posted by CJBianco

Interesting...can you explain the differences in the bevels?

Thanx,
Me

Bevel differences will depends couple factors.
how aggressive cutter is your stone.(doesn't matter what you use).
Norton 8k bevel is shiny looks like mirror finish(please note this is all about bevel has nothing to do with the edge)
Most Japanese stones bevel is hazy or some calls rain etc. depends how you wanna call.
Shapton's stones bevel is scratchy.
lets say.
you hone your blade fast cutting stone in 1 k level .
then you hone your razor using natural stone.
You may get shave ready edge from the blade but if you check the bevel you will be able to see 1k stones cutting lines.
This most visible if someone uses aggressive pastes to sharpen their blade.
Lets say Red paste which 3 very aggressive cutter will do this or diamond higher grit paste will do the exact same thing
Now some people learns to hone a little differently.
example when they hone the blade they check the bevel only and make sure scratches from early stone gone before finishing next stone honing.
Example.
you hone razor on 1k. you check the bevel and see scratches.
then you move to 3k stone. you stay on 3k stone until 1k scratches gone ,then you move 5k and stay on it until 3k scratches gone so on.
This way honing is really PITA.
TIME consuming.
I will add last is this.
doesn't matter what you use in your early honing process your edge must reflect your last used hones edge.
Of course i mean all honing procedure done correctly.
hope this helps.

We need RayG's discerning face for another blind test!

Originally Posted by CJBianco

No, let me see if I can gather my thoughts...OK.

Question 1: Have you ever sharpened a razor from post-bevel (2-3K) all the way thru to the finishing stage (8-10K) using ONLY the bbw/coticule? If no, stop here. If yes, procede to question 2.

Question 2: Have you ever sharpened a razor from post-bevel (2-3K) all the way thru to the final sharpening/pre-finishing stage (8K) using ONLY synthetics (Naniwa/Norton), but then finish (8-10K) the coticule? If no, stop here. If yes, procede to question 3.

Question 3: If you were to test shave both those razors today, could you tell a difference in the edge? (If yes, please describe.)

Thanx,
Me

Question #1: Yes.

" #2: Yes.

" #3: No.

Clear?

Originally Posted by pcb01

Question #1: Yes.

" #2: Yes.

" #3: No.

Clear?

Crystal. =)

Me

I do feel that the edge off the Escher is a better feeling edge than the Coticule. I love reading how many people here feel that the Coticule followed by CrOx produces an edge that feels like the Escher.

I also feel that I get a better edge more consistently with synthetic stones an Escher and a couple of Japanese Naturals than when using the Coticule as a finisher and this is with either light slurry or just water.

With the above being said, the Coticule is a "Can Do" stone. It is also versatile and the edges off it are respectable when you get them where you want them. Unfortunately, we have not only the personal preference thing going on, but the I love only Naturals thing going on, in addition to the popularity thing. Once you become good at honing or even when learning for that matter, you can try a lot of the stones out there, sign up and join the party of your choice or just enjoy the single set of stones that work best for you. I have for the last year or so, really enjoyed the folks pushing the Coticules. People continue to try to make them more than they can be in my opinion, which is fine, but there are a ton of good stones out there that produce very good results with less learning curve and more consistency.

On to the next Coticule question...........

Have fun,

Lynn

I have honed two razors using only a coticule. In my case, there was no sense of wanting to belong to one camp or another. It was a matter of economics. It started when I purchased my first str8, a shave ready Wilbert which I purchased on Ebay. The other was a Butcher Brothers which I bought in an antique store which, not only wouldn't cut arm hair, I could literally use a saw motion against my skin and it still wouldn't cut. I did some homework and asked around and decided that the coticule was a stone that could do it all.

My experience with the antique store bought razor was a long process indeed. As instructed, I started out with a milky slurry and little by little used thinner and thinner slurry once it shaved arm hair. I had to work it over the course of several days for about an hour at a time, but I finally ended up with my favorite shaver.

In the other case, I started out with a razor that was shave ready, but I dropped it once on the bath mat while stropping. Upon close inspection, I found the edge had taken a ding. I re-honed that in an afternoon. It was pretty cool to watch the ding through a loupe slowly change shape and get smaller until it finally disappeared.

In both cases, I finished off by stropping on Crox balsa, then linen, then leather. Eventually I will probably buy a faster cutting stone and a finer finishing stone, among others I'm sure, but since I had limited funds and I don't know any better, I've ended up with a couple of pretty damn fine shavers that hold an edge with only leather and a few passes on linen now and then. Especially true of the Butcher Bros which I rescued from the antique store. I can honestly say that I get e really sweet shave from that one. I suppose I will eventually get a finer edged razor either from someone like Lynn or as I progress as a honer, but with all due respect, I must say for a newbie with no prior honing experience, I'm not wanting for it.