Thread: Nagura questions

Originally Posted by heirkb

Botan is as high as 8k you think? I've never tried a botan, but my Meijiro edges don't feel like they have come off all that fine a slurry. Also, I think Jim goes straight from bevel setting to botan. It must cut really quickly if it's in the 8k range.

I knew I should not have put any numbers indicating grit range.
Point is there is no nagura that can be used to set bevels, as far as I know.

Tomonagura and Honzan nagura are the same thing.

Jim thanks for clarifying that, someone translated them to me as two separate meanings.

I think it is good to think of Nagura like Stefan framed it. Different grits that you can use to make a progression using slurry made by the different Nagura. I personally use a J-Nat stone that is around 15K for all my Nagura work which would be like your C12K but the problem is that when it comes time to go finer you are kinda stuck at 12K. It is a synthetic and making a slurry like Jim has demonstrated doesn't work with a synthetic because the particle size does not break down like a J-Nat does. Thus you would be stuck at 12K, if I am not mistaken.

Later,
Richard

Originally Posted by JimR

I wouldn't put the actual grit of the nagura anywhere near as high as Stefan, but the real importance is how they act--not only do they cut fast, they cut super smooth.

I have all kinds of hare-brained ideas about how and why slurry works, but they're all just personal and I don7t too much evidence.

All I know is, honing on nagura slurry creates edges that I like more than any others.

BTW: Tomonagura and Honzan nagura are the same thing.

So: assuming that I'd like to experiment with nagura slurry, what's one way to try it out without the expense of a JNat? I could deal with searching for naguras; they're affordable. And then, once I decide whether it's right for me I can learn more about the finishing stones and hunt for one that's right for me, rather than jump into that decision ignorantly early on.

This thread began because I caught a hint of people trying naguras on the C12k. I don't have one. I do have a black Arkansas and a CF that are very hard, and was asking about their suitability.

How did you all begin learning about JNats? Did you jump in and purchase one, only to sell it when you discovered it wasn't one you wanted? I suppose I'm asking: which comes first, the nagura or the hone? Can the nagura come first? So far, it seems to me that a chalky 8k Botan can be used on my Charnley to bridge the gap between my BBW and my CF. Am I way off base here?

Originally Posted by MarkinLondon

How did you all begin learning about JNats? Did you jump in and purchase one, only to sell it when you discovered it wasn't one you wanted? I suppose I'm asking: which comes first, the nagura or the hone? Can the nagura come first? So far, it seems to me that a chalky 8k Botan can be used on my Charnley to bridge the gap between my BBW and my CF. Am I way off base here?

Yes that is how many of us started. There was another member here in Japan who has left the forum who did a lot to further people's j-nat education and experience by selling hones that were meant for striaght razors. He had some very nice hones. But there are some of us who just talked to people and took their word. Most of the time they were right, but some of the time they weren't. It is not always a loss if you find the hone doesn't fit into what you wanted. Many people search for hones that will do different things and I have had no trouble selling the hones that I ended up not liking or needing.

But to be perfectly honest, you don't have to spend huge amounts of money on a finisher. J-nats are often priced by weight, as a Mikawa Naguras, thus a large hone of suitable characteristics is going to cost more than a smaller or thinner one that may be an odd shape.

If you send me a PM with what your budget is I can scope around to see if there is something you might be interested in.

My finishing hone I don't use Mikawa Naguras on as it is a 'suita' (it had very small air bubbles in it when it became rock) and the different grains of the Nagura could contaminate it. But a fine and hard finishing hone without 'su' (air pockets) is all you need.

Try the nagura on you CF if you wish. I have experimented with the slurry of one natural applied to the surface of another hone. The results in my experiment were never to do it again, but your experiment may differ.

Good luck with it. Mikawa Nagura can be beautiful stones and collecting them can become addictive as they are not as costly as larger hones.

Be aware though, that finding a Koma nagura is getting more difficult due to recent Mikawa Nagura popularity. A Botan, Tenjo and a Mejiro should be sufficient though, and readily available. Unless you are lucky enough to get your hands on a Koma, I wouldn't worry to much about not having one.

I've been using a Tsushima nagura on my Chinese 12K and like it a lot. This is a dark gray, fairly fine stone that comes (came?) from an undersea mine and is available for < $50 shipped from rakuten, among other places.

I would take Seth up on his offer. He was very generous with his time and I learned a lot. He helped me obtain a very nice stone. I don't know if that was a good thing or not because J-Nat...AD can be a real experience!

But I do like how it all ended up though.


Thanks,
Richard

Nagura stones, like most everything else in our little sport (MOP scales, Livi blades, and even J-nats) are not necessary for great straight shaves.

I have all four standard Asano stamped naguras. They look great sitting on my window sill. I enjoy owning them. One day, I will learn to use them.

I will one day set a bevel, then use the Botan, Tenjou, Mejiro, and Koma to finish the razor on one of the J-nats I got from Old School. It will take much longer than progressing through my Nortons, Naniwas, even dilucotin' on one of my Belgians. The blade will be no sharper (or smoother, I suspect). But I will get much more satisfaction from shaving with a blade that has been finished in the traditional Japanese method than I would from the more modern, efficient, mundane, modern methods.

Would you really rather drive a Miata or a Jaguar E-type?

Originally Posted by JimR

I have all kinds of hare-brained ideas about how and why slurry works, but they're all just personal and I don7t too much evidence.

I was wondering if you care to share the hare brained ideas at all? I'm curious.