Thread: Picking A Japanese Hone

Originally Posted by wsfarrell

For what it's worth, I like to "discover" a stone by using knives rather than razors. Here's why:

1. Most of my razors are already really sharp, and there's not a lot left for a stone to do. This makes it harder to differentiate stones. It's not hard to find a fairly dull kitchen knife to play around with.

2. You can't use a lot of pressure when honing a razor. You can use some with a knife, and this reveals a lot about a particular stone.

3. The sharpening angle is pretty much automatic with a razor (lay it flat on the stone, maybe with tape on the spine). It's not at all automatic with a knife, and this can also be informative. When people say that super-hard stones are "unforgiving," what they mean is that you really have to hold a precise angle to get a good result. Visibly uneven micro-bevels say something about a stone's hardness.

4. Knives give better visual feedback. Magnification always helps, but you don't need a 400 power microscope to tell the difference between mirror and haze on a knife bevel.

The proof is in the shave, of course. I just think knives are a good tool for investigation. As an example, I didn't really understand my Chinese 12k until I had finished a 210mm gyuto on it.

So how are you going to be able to tell if the stone is good for razors when you use it on knives?
Magnification will not tell you anything about the shave you are going to get.

This actually makes sense. With a larger piece of steel you can watch how the stone cuts metal. Wider surface area, more to see. It doesn't tell you how it will be for razors but is just a performance gauge in general. I did this on Thanksgiving actually, sharpened up my humble Carter knife for bird carving, whoa! Completely changed the way I think about this stone.

Originally Posted by bassguy

This actually makes sense. With a larger piece of steel you can watch how the stone cuts metal. Wider surface area, more to see. It doesn't tell you how it will be for razors but is just a performance gauge in general. I did this on Thanksgiving actually, sharpened up my humble Carter knife for bird carving, whoa! Completely changed the way I think about this stone.

Knife sharpening does not require nearly as fine stone to get great results.
Going higher then 6k is really a waste of time because the edge will be gone at the moment you hit the board.

Yes but I'm beginning to understand why there are those among us so reluctant to put a grit rating on naturals. They don't act the same as synthetics do IME. The feedback is instructive as get out, the stone teaches me how to use it, making different sounds depending on how it is cutting metal, color of slurry etc.,. The stone speaks.

The same is true of gut strings. I find gut strings to have many pitch/speed limitations, but can speak more richly than steel strings. Rodney Greene is a drummer here in NYC that I particularly enjoy listening to and he uses real animal skin drum heads (despite similar gut pitch and humidity characteristics not present in synthetic drum heads). I asked him about it and he said, "...You gotta get God involved".
I agree, I digress.

You're right, it was a fleeting edge but boy was it every bit as shave ready- after maybe 10-20 strokes. Cut right through the bird and the foil pan FWIW, my crap knife skills notwithstanding. Getting my knife shave ready is possibly pointless yet, practice just the same.

Justin, you make me happy and Jello all at once. I see my piece of eastern steel is gonna be greeted by the right welcoming party.

Originally Posted by bassguy

You're right, it was a fleeting edge but boy was it every bit as shave ready- after maybe 10-20 strokes. Cut right through the bird and the foil pan FWIW, my crap knife skills notwithstanding. Getting my knife shave ready is possibly pointless yet, practice just the same.

YouTube - Shaving with a Takeda Ajikiri edited