Gokumyo #10 000

Dylan and Randy's posts about the Naniwa Chosera #1000 finally lit a fire under my hone savings account and I went out and got one too. Not only did I get the #1000 but I got the #2000 as well (and already own the #3000 and #5000). I have long been mulling over a #10000 and have been putting it off for over a year. I decided to stray from the Chosera and get a Gokumyo #10000. The price of the #10000 Chosera was the same and I am very curious about the Gokumyo so I got that too.

HAD rearing its abbrasive head?

Yes well I like to sharpen blades other than razors too so I thought I would get what I got. I realise that I will probably never regularly shave off the #10000 and will always include my J-nat at the end of my honing, but I haven't done a full synthetic start to finish honing in about two years and am curious to see what kind of edge these hones will give. Having already owned the Chosera 3K and 5K for a number of years I have a good idea about the lower two. It is the Gokumyo that I will post most about. I'll be at it tonight and see what comes of it.

To be continued...

http://hamono.ocnk.net/data/hamono/p...5731206ee1.jpg

The cheapest price I could find for a full set of the Gokumyo hones #400, #2000, #6000, #10000, #15000, #20000 is 120,650 JPY. Yikes!! What makes a #400 Gokumyo Debado cost 14000 yen where a Shapton Glass or a Naniwa cost a fraction of the Suehiro Gokumyo?

P.S. 120,650 JPY = $1400-ish USD

HONE ADDICT!

Please let us know about your experience with them!

How about your adventures in the Jnat dept.?

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Originally Posted by Kees

How about your adventures in the Jnat dept.?

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I am still very interested in J-nats. I just wanted to have a set level on a razor before I went to Morihei to try out a hone or two. I can't do a long Nagura progression while there so I thought this standard would be a good starting point to testing different hones.

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Originally Posted by ZethLent

to try out a hone or two

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I can't wait to read about that part :popcorn:

I just finished two razors on the new hones. One razor went from nothing to shave ready (a Mappin and Webb full hollow). The other razor was already shave ready off of my Japanese Ohira (Japanese full hollow). So I honed it 'down' so to speak.

The Gokumyo has a lot of feedback. More than the #3000 or #5000 Choseras. The #2000 had more of a gritty feel than the #1000 too.

The honing was super easy. I did about 20 laps on the 10K and stropped on Cordovan only. Both razors felt the same. It was like coming off of a coticule. There was no scratchy feeling, and no pulling. Just a good sharp/shave ready razor. A great shave. I could shave off of this level and never complain. I did one side of my face with one and the other side of my face with the other. Both were sting free with both the Bay Rum splash and the Lucido splash. Neither razor had any trouble plowing through my chin area either.


The Gokumyo comes attached to a rubber mount. The size of the stone is about the same surface area as the Chosera, but less a few mm in thickness. I think if I had got the Chosera 10K it would have been a full 1cm thicker. We will have to see how it wears to decide if it was a good deal for a hone 1cm less in thickness, for the same price.

I am happy so far with the results. Because the two razors felt so similar in the test shave I am sure that the razors I bring to Morihei will have the benchmark I was aiming for, so that I can compare finishes off of different natural finishing hones. :)


And a couple of pics from the honing session:

http://straightrazorpalace.com/membe...2-ts381282.jpg

http://straightrazorpalace.com/membe...3-ts381283.jpg

http://straightrazorpalace.com/membe...4-ts381284.jpg

With this review you have earned yourself the official HAD Enabler Award. :)

This is OT for this thread, but could you post more about the Chosera 3k and 5k? Since I got the 1k, I'm finding myself wanting one or both.

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Originally Posted by holli4pirating

This is OT for this thread, but could you post more about the Chosera 3k and 5k? Since I got the 1k, I'm finding myself wanting one or both.

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yes please Seth, fan the flames of desire lest they lick the HAD riddled flesh from our bones.
:beer2:

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Originally Posted by holli4pirating

This is OT for this thread, but could you post more about the Chosera 3k and 5k? Since I got the 1k, I'm finding myself wanting one or both.

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The #3000 and the #5000 are a lot less porous than the #1000 and #2000. The #1000 seems to suck water like mad. I was constantly having to re wet the surface, even after soaking it for 20 minutes. The #3000 and #5000 feel nearly exactly the same with regard to feedback and weight. The #1000 is nice but the feel of those other two are really buttery smooth and the water doesn't soak into them like it does with the 1K.

The steel removal on the #1000 was visible but there was little or no swarf left on the hone. Maybe it was sucked into the hone? On the #3000 and #5000 the swarf is readily visible but even when honing a kitchen knife and the water is all black, the hone never feels loaded and keeps on cutting. A quick dip under a running faucet and a palm polish will remove all of the dark swarf and leave a nice clean surface.

The edges off of these are a lot more crisp than off of a Coticule or BBW. Under 30x magnification the scratch pattern is very consistant. I would say the edges are even better than those I used to get off of lapping film.

All in all they are well worth the money. The Gokumyo #10000 too I would say but it is still too new for my to say for sure. I look forward to the razors that come off of it.

I'd also like to mention that the stamps on the sides of the Naniwa Choseras state that the hones should not be left soaking in water for long periods of time (i.e. more than 1 hr.) because the hone could deform.

The Gokumyo, on the other hand states that no mater how long you soak it, it will never deform. This is one you can leave in a honing pond even in between honing sessions.

I think I have found a synthetic equivalent to my J-Nat finishing hone in this Gokumyo. I'll have to make a visit to Morihei to see if something he has will up this one.

Arrggghhh! Thanks a heap you guys! HAD is back!

:rant:

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Originally Posted by ZethLent

I think I have found a synthetic equivalent to my J-Nat finishing hone in this Gokumyo. I'll have to make a visit to Morihei to see if something he has will up this one.

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would you clarify above statement?
do you mean this synthetic stone(Gokumyo 10000) is equivalent to your natural Japanese 30000+ finishing hone?

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Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

would you clarify above statement?
do you mean this synthetic stone(Gokumyo 10000) is equivalent to your natural Japanese 30000+ finishing hone?

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That "30000" natural finisher is a nonsense number, based only on what people feel on their face. It has no relationship whatsoever to real size of the particles.

Kyoto awaseto have particles that range in size from 1-3 microns...so if you want to put a grit number on your Japanese finishing hone, call it an 8k.

If, on the other hand, you are only judging a hone by the feeling, then just call it a finisher--that's what the guys who've been dealing with hones for the last couple of centuries have done.

So if this hone is a good finisher, it's a good finisher, regardless of the (mostly meaningless) particle size.

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Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

would you clarify above statement?
do you mean this synthetic stone(Gokumyo 10000) is equivalent to your natural Japanese 30000+ finishing hone?

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Yes.

That is how it has been feeling for quite a number of shaves now.

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Originally Posted by ZethLent

Yes.

That is how it has been feeling for quite a number of shaves now.

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this one should be twice as good as then?

?? ????? GMN200??20000? - ??????

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Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

this one should be twice as good as then?

?? ????? GMN200??20000? - ??????

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Sham it just might. Talk to A_S he has one and thinks it is an excellent stone. When I spoke to him last year in March he had already honed 1000 razors on it.

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Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

this one should be twice as good as then?

?? ????? GMN200??20000? - ??????

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My limited experience with this stone says no.
I compared it to my Nakayama Kiita and wasn´t able to tell a real difference.
It gives a good edge, but I hardly can imagine any better edge than what I get from my
Nakayama or Shapton 30k. I would say it´s another one in that league,
but certainly no better (is it even possible?!)

I have Nakayama (yellow) and I have a 15K stone, which overhones my razors. Then what for is 30K?

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Originally Posted by Lesslemming

My limited experience with this stone says no.
I compared it to my Nakayama Kiita and wasn´t able to tell a real difference.
It gives a good edge, but I hardly can imagine any better edge than what I get from my
Nakayama or Shapton 30k. I would say it´s another one in that league,
but certainly no better (is it even possible?!)

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I have recently bought this stone myself, and it is a good finisher.
Not better than my Escher or my Jnats, but to be honest, it is right up there with them.
it does deliver a combination of smoothness and keenness that I thus far have only achieved on my very finest naturals.

So Lesslemming is spot on, IMHO, it is yet another one in that league.

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I have Nakayama (yellow) and I have a 15K stone, which overhones my razors

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Either your Nakayama is not suitable for finishing a razor, or you are not quite where you need to be with your honing technique.
A good Nakayama will not destroy an edge if used properly. Period.

I recommend finishing your razor on your Shapton 15k (or do you have any other 15k that I am not aware of?) until it shaves your face smoothly.
Then go to your Nakayama with water only (my recommendation, experiments are welcome but first try the most simple way to use the stone).
Give the razor 10-30 double strokes. Rather less than more. Strop (or don´t, your choice. Mind the stropping as another source of defect for the edge when done improperly)
and shave with the razor. If the edge does not change, try another round on the Nakayama. If the edge gets better, decide if you´re satisfied and leave it.
If it gets worse your Nakayama is probably not good for finishing a razor, or you are incompatible with your Nakayama.

A 30k Stone like the Shapton Glass stone will not overhone if used properly.
If used correctly (many will agree with me) the Shapton 30k delivers exceptionally good results.
It will smooth out the edge to a point you cannot see anything but a smooth straight line under magnification.
But the price is probably not justified.
HHT and shaving results are keen and scary sharp, yet smooth.
Better than Nakayama? Better than Gokumyo? Better than Escher? Who the hell knows
QUOTE: it is yet another one in that league :)


P.s:
Here´s a little information with pictures for the Shapton Series (from Shapton, in Japanese)
http://www.shapton.co.jp/GlassSeries...07_01_ver1.pdf

Thank you. I bought my Nakayama only 2 months back and a little overloaded with information about different naguras and so on. You are right, it's better to start with water. After more practice a feeling of stone will come.