Thread: Sufficent?

Hey all, just a quick question.

I currently have a set of DMT 8" dia-sharps (c/f/ef/eef), and a spyderco UF (3x8), and a nice large strip of balsa with a healthy amount of CrOx worked in.

I recently got a vintage straight off ebay (I LOVE this thin blade and spike point by the way. much easier for beard maintenance than my 6/8 dovo BQ). It came fairly sharp, and i have stropped it on the CrOx, and was able to shave with it surprisingly comfortably. that being said, i got it for 8 bucks with the intention of teaching myself to hone and restore. I was wondering if the equipment i currently have should be sufficient to hone a razor to shave-ready, theoretically. that way i know it is my technique and not the equipment.

I know there's a whole science to honing, and it is its own hobby, which i'm sure i'll get addicted to at some point. however, i'd like to get started by getting a comfortable shaving edge with what i have (or as little as possible on top of that).

I managed to get my dovo relatively comfortable shave-wise, though i'm not entirely sure how. all i know is, when laid edge-up on a table you can gently lower a hair over the edge and it will pop before the hair bends from the pressure of being pushed against the edge. HHT? i'm not sure, but i think so.

i hope to do that again with my current setup. i think since it's already pretty sharp the DMT EEF (8k) would be coarse enough, but i was wondering whether it would be wise to go straight to the UF from there.
My spyderco UF has the mill-marks that i think are detrimental to the finish, however i don't want to attempt to lap it. it seems to work as-is, and i'm not eager to spend 40 hours voiding a warranty . i really love the almost magical finish it leaves on my knives in such little time, so i am pleased with it... not sure about razors, i've only done one.

I was thinking about a DT seeing as they're <$25, but i'm not sure whether that would be better or worse than my UF.

i'm probably not going to start honing it for a while, since i have to send 3/4 DMT hones back to DMT. I'm also waiting on wet/dry paper, steel wool, and polish from amazon to clean this razor up a bit (without having to take it apart. this should be interesting).

any advice specific to how to use this setup, and all other input is welcome.

much thanks,
Sidd.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of honing on the DMT's. The C is great for lapping, and the F can be used for restoration honing (taking out chips/frowns/etc). I used the EF as a bevel setter for a while, and my final verdict is that I don't really love it. It's the only hone I've ever created wire edges on. That said, it's fast and will never dish and needs no prep, so it's nice for serious bevel setting. I played with the EEF a little, and didn't really like it. Just too aggressive for something in that grit range for my tastes. Ne experience with the UF, but if you are saying yours has grooves in it that interferes with honing, I'd say send it back (I believe the offer a replacement if it's not flat or has surface issues).

All that said... Yes, you can learn to hone with what you have and get pretty good edges. Taking the time to learn to use what you have is a much bigger factor than the actual hones you use.

I've actually broken in my EEF some, and am comfortable with the lack of feedback from these stones. i've used arkansas, oil, and water stones so i know what i'm missing... and i'm okay with that. i really find lapping quite... unpleasant. i, for some reason, dislike grinding up my $75 stone on sand paper to maintain it's flatness.

i have a theory that many people don't break in their EEFs, which is very understandable as it took me hours, and it's still not where i've been told it ought to be. I bought a 12"x1"x.5" bar of hardened steel (originally "utility" chisel), and ground off the coating on my front step. i then smoothed it out on the DMT C (while breaking it in at the time), then proceeded to spend hours rubbing the steel against the EEF using soapy water, and little-no pressure. i'm told that it ought to be smooth like glass once broken in, leaving a reflective and extremely fine scratch pattern.
Sucks because after the 3 hours i've put in, it'll likely be replaced due to a manufacturing defect.

Originally Posted by dnullify

I've actually broken in my EEF some, and am comfortable with the lack of feedback from these stones. i've used arkansas, oil, and water stones so i know what i'm missing... and i'm okay with that. i really find lapping quite... unpleasant. i, for some reason, dislike grinding up my $75 stone on sand paper to maintain it's flatness.

i have a theory that many people don't break in their EEFs, which is very understandable as it took me hours, and it's still not where i've been told it ought to be. I bought a 12"x1"x.5" bar of hardened steel (originally "utility" chisel), and ground off the coating on my front step. i then smoothed it out on the DMT C (while breaking it in at the time), then proceeded to spend hours rubbing the steel against the EEF using soapy water, and little-no pressure. i'm told that it ought to be smooth like glass once broken in, leaving a reflective and extremely fine scratch pattern.
Sucks because after the 3 hours i've put in, it'll likely be replaced due to a manufacturing defect.

All that time you spent breaking in your DMTEEF is probably more time than you would spend lapping a waterstone, even if you added up all the lappings for (well, depends how often you hone, but...) at least a year.

Originally Posted by holli4pirating

All that time you spent breaking in your DMTEEF is probably more time than you would spend lapping a waterstone, even if you added up all the lappings for (well, depends how often you hone, but...) at least a year.

heh, this is true. however it's not the time that bothers me about lapping water stones. I know that once the EEF is broken in, it'll likely last longer than i would think about.
I'm just opposed to grinding away surface of hones. Think of it as a mental block, i'm nuts i suppose.
Knowing me, and my OCD, i'd likely spend time flattening out fine naturals after virtually every use.

again, knowing me, i'll likely end up with a fine water stone, or other form of natural. however i went with the DMT first so that i would have a low maintenance long lasting and reliable stone, for now.

dnullify,

Good to see you using the UF

I have been using my Spyderco UF quite a lot recently, and particularly as a basis for my slurry experiments.

I was lucky - my UF was actually flat

It too has the 'ridges', but they don't (in this case !) seem to have any negative effects on it use for razors.

I use the UF mostly as a 'modern day barber hone' (with soapy water), and it does the job very well indeed.

My usual progression is to use the Naniwa 1, 3, 8 & 12 k, followed by CrOx. This progression does such a good job, I don't know where the UF could be usefully used in htis instance.

However, I will, sometime this, year try out the progression suggested by Dr Moss of using all the Spyderco hones (medium, fine & ultra-fine).

Good luck !

Have fun !

Best regards

Russ

Thanks for the input.

i figure my DMT setup should theoretically cover all bases, but i feel as though, for now, finishing might be important, especially considering the nature of diamonds. i think UF might be too fine for this, going from the 8k DMT to a finisher. but i haven't the slightest what to put inbetween.

for nicks, and damage i've got the whole set of dmt, though i doubt i'd ever need to go past fine... it's pretty coarse.

I'm probably just going to have to give it a try, just dull the ebay razor i've got, and start from scratch. how the heck am i supposed to get myself to dull a perfectly good razor??? gah.

So UPS didn't pick up, so i gave my DMT's a shot with a vintage.

set the bevel rather quickly on the Ef, then went to the EEF with light circles just balancing the bevel. then did many alternating laps on it with soapy water until it was popping hairs off my arm. then took it to the UF, but not for long enough i think (my desk is at an akward height with relation to my chair, so my arms go tired), and then CrOx on balsa, then plain balsa. shaved my neck (bringing back my beard).
All i can say is, that i've had worse shaves in my month. most of the blade pops hairs HHT, the tip does so somewhat more reluctantly. i think i'll have to go back and start over, but i'm not sure.

do people hold hones in their hands, or just work atop a desk/counter?

Originally Posted by dnullify

do people hold hones in their hands, or just work atop a desk/counter?

Whichever you are more comfortable with.