Thread: Just got some Choseras

Just received a 1k, 3k, 5k, and 10k Naniwa Chosera stones yesterday.

I gotta start by quoting English's post from this thread: http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...sera-hone.html

Originally Posted by English

I've owned my Chosera now for long enough to understand it and give my opinion as to how good I think it is.

I believe that there are four stages to prepare a straight razor to a shave ready condition.

First the bevel needs to be set. Most use a 1000 grit hone to do this.
Second, the bevel needs to be brought to a level of sharpness so that it will catch and cut hair easily. This usually achieved by progressing from a 1000 grit hone up to an 8000/10000 grit hone.
Thirdly, the edge needs to be smoothed or finished. The range of materials that will smooth a sharpened edge is extensive. Old barbers hone, Eschers, Various pastes, Chromium Oxide, Newspaper, exotic Japanese natural hones, 15000 grit or even 30000 grit Hones from a supplier named Shapton, etc.etc,
Fourth and finally a good stropping on a leather strop.

The Chosera for me fits into the second stage, the sharpening stage. I think that it sharpens to a similar level as say a Belgian Yellow Coticule. Maybe slightly better, but I think that depends on your honing skill and also how good your coticule is.

The main advantage the Chosera has over all other sharpening hones is that it is easy to use, it is consistent and it is highly efficient. It takes a while to develop the skill to use a coticule or for that matter just about any other hone on the market. The Chosera is very easy to use and doesn't require the user to be super gentle etc.,etc., You just push and pull the blade across the surface a few times and bingo like majic, the razor edge will pop hairs. Anybody can do it.

But that's all it does. Once the edge is sharp, its sharp. The hone will not add or give any more. You can use all your honing skills, but you won't get the edge sharper and you won't move into the third stage of polishing. The Chosera is not a polishing hone and I believe most straight razor users prefer a little more smoothness than a Chosera edge produces.

Many ask the question, is the Chosera as good as a 15000 Shapton. In my view, the question is asking to compare apples and oranges. The Chosera is a sharpening hone and the Shapton is a polishing hone.

IMO, English is spot on in his review.

I spent 8 hours yesterday getting acquainted with these hones. Gotta say... it was a blast!

The 1k and 3k hone arrived almost flat. Just a few minutes with a DMT had the pencil grids completely removed. The 5k stone was quite convex, requiring 20 minutes of lapping. The 10k also was convex, but not as bad as the 5k.

After reading http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...n-crack-2.html I was concerned about soaking the stones, so I just kept spraying water on the top as needed to keep a light film of water on them. The 1k and 3k stones weren't excessively thirsty, and were easy to keep a nice thin film of water on top. The 5k and 10k stones were thirsty. So much so that I did end up soaking them for 10 minutes.

OK, enough with the minutia... how do they work?

These stones are fast. Like, *seriously* fast.

I wanted to get a good feel for how long it would take to set a bevel at the 1k level, so I dulled the edge of 10 razors on a water glass. The 1k stone sets a bevel at about the same pace as a DMT 1200. Faaast. Each Chosera comes with a rubbing stone (not really a true nagura) that can be used to refresh the surface of the stone (although mine never did glaze), and to raise a slurry. Adding a very (very!) light slurry (two laps with the rubbing stone) made the Chosera 1k even faster at setting a bevel. Following up the slurry laps with a few water only passes increased the sharpness substantially. Normally, it wouldn't be necessary to even use a slurry, these stones are fast enough with out it, but for a really dull edge, raising a light slurry will get your bevel set in a hurry.

I didn't use a slurry on any of the other stones; it just wasn't necessary.

Jumping to the 3k from the 1k, the 3k removed the scratch marks from the 1k stone in a hurry. Honestly, I think you could go from the 1k right to the 5k without a problem, and it would be a real money saver.

The 5k stone left a great edge, once again in minimal time.

English's description of the 10k stone is spot on. It definitely is a sharpening stone (as opposed to a true polisher), although the edge it left was more on a par with what I used to get off of the Shapton GS 16k. I could see maintaining an edge for a long, long time with nothing more than the 10k stone.

I also very much agree with English's statement about these stones being extremely easy to use. As he said, anyone can do it.

Personally, I hone with very slow, two handed strokes, as I have shaky hands. This has always been frustrating for me on slower hones; it takes me forever to do as many strokes as most guys do in a couple minutes.

This brings us to new guys...New guys typically hone with very slow strokes. On the Choseras, you're not going to be punished for this. You'll end up with a shaving sharp razor without spending all day honing. I could well see a new guy going from dull to shaving sharp in about an hour with these hones. Yeah, they are that fast and easy. The drawback, of course, is the price. If you can get past the price, these stones are dead easy to hone on.

The results I get from just four Choseras are right about in line with what I got from the Shapton GS 1k, 2k, 4k, 8k, 16k. It's not up to the same level as the Shapton GS 30k hone, but it wouldn't really be fair to compare a 10k hone to a 30k hone, either. Honestly, I think you could skip the Chosera 3k, and just get the 1k, 5k, and 10k. These stones are fast enough that the extra time you'll spend on the 5k stone really won't amount to much.

These stones are very thick, and very hard. I think anyone but Lynn would have a hard time using one up in his/her lifetime.

This morning I shaved with a blade taken through the Chosera progression, then stropped on webbed fabric and latigo leather. The blade was very sharp, but a little on the harsh side. I think a few laps on CrOx or whatever your mellower of choice is, would really improve the shave.

If you're looking for a set of fast, incredibly easy hones to give you a fantastic edge, the Choseras are definitely worth considering, even if they are a bit on the spendy side.

I just wish my favorite supplier of straight razor stuff still carried them.

Pics to come later.

So, amazingly enough, I've spent most of the day again today with the stones, especially the 10k.

Last night, I stopped honing on the 10k after I had gotten an extremely sharp, smooth edge. I stropped that blade, and shaved with it this morning. As mentioned, it was a bit on the harsh side.

Today, I've taken all the blades I worked on yesterday back to the 10k for a bit more love. I was shocked to see that I hadn't maxed out the keeness that this stone can give. Just a few minutes more on each blade resulted in some amazingly sharp edges. Wish the beard would grow back faster, I'm anxious to see how well they shave.

I guess I just stopped a bit early, as I was worried about over honing on such fast stones, and I really didn't think that the stone could produce a keener edge.

For those of you guys with Chosera experience, is over honing a concern on the Choseras, or is it more along the lines of a coticule, where you can go forever without over honing?

I checked the blades thoroughly under the microscope, and didn't see any visible signs of over honing.... yet.

I took one blade from the 10k to the following diamond lapping films: 1um, .5um, .1 um, then finally to .05(!) AlOx film. Yeah, I know the .05 is a bit extreme, but it's just for fun. I know how controversial the HHT is, but just as an example, this blade passes HHT on my three year old daughter's wispy hair. Probably a bit much to shave comfortably with.

Tomorrow, several blades are going to go through Glen's slurry dilution technique that works so well on the Super Stones. This should be an interesting experiment. I'm really curious to see how much of a dulling effect the different slurry levels will have on the edges, and how much of an increase in speed there is to be had. I'll update Glen's http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...iwa-users.html thread with the results, if anyone happens to be interested.

I don't know about the chances of overhoning, but one of the big bonuses that I've read about with the Chosear 10k is that the grit breaks down as you use it, so you get a finer and finer edge. I don't know if this actually happens, it's just what I read, but maybe what happened for you confirms that.

Couple of crappy photos...





Last one is really blurry, whoops. Just wanted to show how much thicker the 10k is than the rest of the stones. Glad it is, as it's a bit softer than the others.

Where did you get yours? Not that I need more hones...

Originally Posted by heirkb

Where did you get yours? Not that I need more hones...

Chosera Stones, Naniwa Chosera Stones, Chosera Sharpening Stones, Chosera Water Stones

They ship just about instantly. Orders over 50 bucks ship for free. They also have a combo deal on ordering the 1k, 3k, 5k together.

Really tempted! If I get this new job, I'll definitely spring for some Choseras (thinking 1,5,10 here) after talking to Maxim about an Asagi...

Thank you for a great and thorough review of your experience with these stones.
I've been following the discussions on the Chosera stones lately, and have finally ordered 3 of them. The 1K-5K and 10K.
I've been using the Naniwa SS for all my sharpening this far, and really look forward to try these new stones out.

Originally Posted by PA23-250

Really tempted! If I get this new job, I'll definitely spring for some Choseras (thinking 1,5,10 here) after talking to Maxim about an Asagi...

I was torn between getting the Choseras or a jnat with naguras. The problem is, at that price level (around $500), it's really kind of tough to get a good set of jnats with proven razor performance. I decided to get something that was a known quantity, but the jnat desire is definitely still there. Just gotta save up the money again...

Originally Posted by Birnando

Thank you for a great and thorough review of your experience with these stones.
I've been following the discussions on the Chosera stones lately, and have finally ordered 3 of them. The 1K-5K and 10K.
I've been using the Naniwa SS for all my sharpening this far, and really look forward to try these new stones out.

I really think that's a great choice. IMO, the 3k stone just isn't needed. One of the most popular progressions around here for a long time has been the Norton 1k, 4k, 8k. So going 1k, 5k, 10k on such fast stones really shouldn't be stretching it too much. You'll probably end up spending a bit more time on the 5k hone, but certainly not enough to justify the extra expense of the 3k hone.

Please post your results when you get a chance.

Originally Posted by holli4pirating

I don't know about the chances of overhoning, but one of the big bonuses that I've read about with the Chosear 10k is that the grit breaks down as you use it, so you get a finer and finer edge. I don't know if this actually happens, it's just what I read, but maybe what happened for you confirms that.

Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I went over to toolsforworkingwood.com and read everything they had to say about the Choseras. I think his name is Joe(?), said that the Chosears use a "friable" abrasive particle, meaning that it gets smaller as you hone. I just don't know if we, as razor honers, put enough pressure on the hone to really start reducing the size of the abrasives, but then again, I don't know if it's a function of pressure, or simply the blade passing over the surface of the stone that results in the abrasives breaking down to smaller pieces.

I've only done a bit of experimenting with this on the 10k hone, so the results definitely aren't conclusive, but it would seem that it is happening at least to some degree.

I'm out of town for the next few days, but look forward to spending several days next week with the 10k hone in particular. The plan is to see exactly where the keeness tops out with it on different steels, and also to try the "one stone honing" technique with it.