Thread: Arkansas Novaculite vs. Belgian Coticule

i've shaved and sharpened straights since i was sixteen and there is not much difference between quality knife steel and that used in razors,a polished edge is a polished edge but if it makes you happy i will describe every little detail involved in what i'm contributing and i don't care if it's twice now either you can keep count if you want,by the way i never got a reply to my answer to your pm does that mean i was correct

No actually you were wrong, and if you had bothered to read the entire PM that I sent, you would have realized that... but you obviously believe what you want about Arkansas stones...

Now you have decided that your pet stone is the best, it it might very well be for "Your Face" you basically have to understand that in the grand scheme of Straight Razor use you have a very small minority opinion..
Very very few people share the view that ANY Arkansas stone can beat the other Naturals or Synthetics out there..
Now you can continue to tilt against windmills all you want, but please understand that you are going to continue to run into those of us that are going to continue to disagree wholeheartedly against you and your opinion ..

The only real detail that matters to us, is if you have ever shaved with a Razor honed with any stones that are considered to be a "Razor" hone, and not a knife hone.. Or if you had spent some time learning to use any other hones on razors??? Not discounting your opinion here of course, but there are way to many of us that have used way to many stones and a few of use that have not only tried these edges on our faces, but have sent these edges to 1000's of people across the world ..
So when you tell us with such Passion, that the Arkansas stones are the best there is, we tend to think perhaps you might be just a "Touch" biased or maybe a bit inexperienced in forming your opinion...

Also another thing to consider, is that most "Knife" people that make the statement you just did, tend to change their tune after learning to hone Straight Razors correctly with a light touch and not the heavy hand of a knife sharpener... Others, continue to hone wth a closed mind, a heavy hand, and a know it all attitude, and never really get the most out of their straight razors...

Now personally I dont really care which direction you decide to take in your straight razor path, all we can do is try and help you,,, But when you voice your opinion about Arkansas stones on this forum, you can expect to hear from many of us that that disagree with it...



To the OP:

If you are comparing a Good Coticule to Arkansas stone then you will find the Coticule a much friendly hone to use.. Even if you want to toss in the Charnley Forest which is considered a Razor hone and a Novaculite it is still not as easy to master as the Coticule on straight razors...

Note to Alucard73 did you notice the way I answered that, not once did I ever say any of them give a "better" edge...

I've many hones: Thuringian, Coticules (yellow and blue), Naniwa 12000 and Chinese 12K, Norton 4000/8000 and Arkansas Translucent extra fine and hard.
Since 3 years I'm honing my razors and I personally find the Arkansas Hard, for me, to be the best as a finisher.
I use the arkansas after the coticule after I bought 2 extremely fine and sharp NOS swedish Eskiltuna razors and contacted the vendor how he honed the razors.
He explained to me that he used the method of his father and grand-father, all barbers like him: coticule and then Arkansas hard as a finisher.
Only 5 minutes are required on the Arkansas.
I bought the Arkansas hone offered on his website and got the same fine results on all of my razors, even those that were supposed not to be good shavers...
The arkansas hone is a translucent, but not the wax-type you see on the pictures.
If lighted with a lamp the stone is only translucent up to the middle of the stone...and has a very light greenish brown color.

Ive got an ark, and I'll admit, it leaves a good shaving edge. But my Eschers are unrivalled. Just a single trial is all it takes...

Originally Posted by Scipio

Ive got an ark, and I'll admit, it leaves a good shaving edge. But my Eschers are unrivalled. Just a single trial is all it takes...

Have you ever heard the expression??? that we use a lot over on this side of the pond,,, Something about leading a horse to water
This entire site does that, some just chose to take another path
Oh well that is what makes it so interesting

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Have you ever heard the expression??? that we use a lot over on this side of the pond,,, Something about leading a horse to water
This entire site does that, some just chose to take another path
Oh well that is what makes it so interesting

Sorry man, I forgot. I didn't intend to indirectly affect the market forces for Eschers.

Actually I retract my statement....Eschers aren't that great at all...they are merely caviar. People only desire them due to their expense. So called 'Giffen goods.' A rise in price makes them even more desireable.

Naniwa 12Ks are way better. The best darn finisher out there. Synthetics can not be beat.

Originally Posted by Scipio

Sorry man, I forgot. I didn't intend to indirectly affect the market forces for Eschers.

Actually I retract my statement....Eschers aren't that great at all...they are merely caviar. People only desire them due to their expense. So called 'Giffen goods.' A rise in price makes them even more desireable.

Naniwa 12Ks are way better. The best darn finisher out there. Synthetics can not be beat.

I thank all the input and feedback. Cheers to all
After all is said and done, since I now have a nice translucent Arkansas in addition to my coticule standard, I'll just have to try them out, using the coticule dilucot, then finish on the Ark and test.

I use Arkansas stones very rarely these days. They're just that much harder to use that I prefer my belgians or shaptons. When I have used Arkansas stones, I used them dry as I found they work better for me that way. Surgeons used to use Arkansas stones but surgeons don't sharpen their tools anymore. They use tools designed for single use. Dental hygienists use Arkansas stones but that is due to tradition and them not really knowing about other stones. I've spoken with a number of hygienists about this and they say they use them because that's what they were taught in school.

Glen i don't see why my opinion is such a problem for you as others don't seem to mind,in my first post i said arkansas's are "my favourite" stones and then described some of my experience with them and said at the end i said i feel it's worth it for the smoothest edge "i've" ever seen,then i was asked what stones had i used so i stated what i could remember i guess i should have said not only did i sharpen my knives on them i either borrowed the stone or took my razor to work,it was just easier to write it the way i did but if it will make you happy i will include every last detail,as for knife sharpening there should be no need for pressure if there is you need to go down a grit as preesure will fold the edge over and then need to be sharpened away to get to a sharp edge,to get that really sharp polished edge on a knife the actual edge is really fine just like on a razor even the edge angle is similar,if i thought i knew it all i would not be on this site in the first place and yes i have learned a lot and i do use what i have learned some of it is not for me the other i still do,don't worry i wont be replying to you in future as you detract from the enjoyment i get from the site

Originally Posted by Howard

I use Arkansas stones very rarely these days. They're just that much harder to use that I prefer my belgians or shaptons. When I have used Arkansas stones, I used them dry as I found they work better for me that way. Surgeons used to use Arkansas stones but surgeons don't sharpen their tools anymore. They use tools designed for single use. Dental hygienists use Arkansas stones but that is due to tradition and them not really knowing about other stones. I've spoken with a number of hygienists about this and they say they use them because that's what they were taught in school.

For the surgeons I am not sure that is entirely true, I remember hearing about one surgeon who was using some high end wood carving knives and loved them but found that the handles did not stand up to autoclaving. He liked the ergonomics that this one maker had used over the standard blades.