Flattening stone:3 1000 stones vs diamond plate

[SharpMan]

With three stones one can make three(actually 6) really
flat surfaces. So you could use three 1000 grit stones
to flatten each other. Then one of these three stones
can be used to sharpen and the other 2 to flatten
the intermediate and the final polishing stone.

When the three stones are not flat anymore, you just
repeat rubbing them together to get them flat again.
Should not take long.

Why bother if one can just buy a diamond plate?

-Diamond plates are not superflat as far as I know.

-The diamond particles do shed and break and are
so hard they are likely to embed in the waterstones

So if you got a 8000 or even finer stone and you use
a diamond plate to flatten it, there is a (big?)chance
some particles of the plate will contaminate it and this
will effect the result.

-Diamonds are not forever. The plate can/will lose its
flattnes after some time.

###

Diamond pros:

-fast
-easy
-les messy

###

I am considering buying a diamond flattening plate. The atoma 400
seems a good choice. I also need a 1000 stone. I could just buy
3 1000 grit stones and(see above) not need the diamond flattening
plate.

I know, some are thinking ''interesting, why don't you try it''. I aint
rich man Maybe some here have experience with the three stone
technique. Also since there are many sharpening/hone addicts,
perfectionists I thought it would be a good idea to ask.

Thanks.

Sharpman

[JimR]

I use sandpaper and a polished granite plate, followed by polishing powders on said plate.

Seems like the 1000 grit stones would wear out fairly quickly--I've heard most of them are pretty soft, except for the pricier Chosera ones.

[SharpMan]

I use sandpaper and a polished granite plate, followed by polishing powders on said plate.

Seems like the 1000 grit stones would wear out fairly quickly--I've heard most of them are pretty soft, except for the pricier Chosera ones.

Hi Jim,

I use sandpaper too, but I could see the grit particles embed in my
waterstones. Also I don't like using sandpaper. Too much of a mess
/hassle.

The shapton pros are the hardest waterstones as far as I know. I
don't think they would wear out fairly quickly. Actuall they would
(I am guessing) take a very long time to wear out.

Sharpman

[gssixgun]

Sharpman, First you need to clarify on what you are sharpening as in every other thread you have posted you have talked about sharpening Plane Blades and this is very very different then what we are talking about...

To answer from sharpening Straight Razors..... I use a DMT 325 and have lapped Hundreds of Barber's hones, and have lapped my water stones Thousands of times, that includes Nortons, Naniwas, Shaptons, Coticules, Eschers, Chinese, Japanese, etc: etc: etc: and have never had a problem with wearing it out, or embedding grit...

I wore out one 1k stone so far it was a Norton 220/1k and I finally wore out the 1k side at about 3500-4000 razors...

This of course would have no correlation to honing Plane Blades as the steel , angle, and pressure is way different...

Edit.. I also used the "rubbing the stones together" routine way in the past, that is probably the best way to embed grit from one stone to another, at least in my limited experience with using it..

[adrspach]

Sorry, do I understand it right? Do you suggest that you need three same stones of the same type and grit to flatten them on each other? Interesting. The only stones I have three times in my collection are some naturals CFs, Cotis, DTs ...).
Could be interesting to see how you don't embed the particles from Chocera in SS or Shapton.

[SharpMan]

Sorry, do I understand it right? Do you suggest that you need three same stones of the same type and grit to flatten them on each other? Interesting. The only stones I have three times in my collection are some naturals CFs, Cotis, DTs ...).
Could be interesting to see how you don't embed the particles from Chocera in SS or Shapton.

Yes, three stones of the same grit and type. You can use these to
precisely flatten each stone.

Rub:
1 A on B, A on C, B on C
2 B on A, B on C, A on C
3 C on B, C on A, A on B

Every time you do this, your stones get flatter. Just make
sure that your stones are not convex because that would make
things worse as the stones while rubbing them would rock.

Sharpman

[SharpMan]

Sharpman, First you need to clarify on what you are sharpening as in every other thread you have posted you have talked about sharpening Plane Blades and this is very very different then what we are talking about...

Gssixgun,

I don't think it would matter at all. Flattening is flattening. The only
difference would be that for plane blades one(I think) would be
flattening more often than one would need to do for sharpening
razors.

To answer from sharpening Straight Razors..... I use a DMT 325 and have lapped Hundreds of Barber's hones, and have lapped my water stones Thousands of times, that includes Nortons, Naniwas, Shaptons, Coticules, Eschers, Chinese, Japanese, etc: etc: etc: and have never had a problem with wearing it out, or embedding grit...

I think you might not have noticed it, or it did not effect the result
very much. Diamond stones do lose, no matter how slowly, their
diamonds and there is no doubt that some will embed in the stones.
The effect would probably be very little if one goes from a 1000 to
a 3000 stone. But I do think that the diamond particles might be
problematic for the finishing stones.

I do remember some people writing that the DMT and atoma plates
mentioning these were losing their particles on the fine stones and this
resulting in a not so good polish sometimes.

I wore out one 1k stone so far it was a Norton 220/1k and I finally wore out the 1k side at about 3500-4000 razors...[

This of course would have no correlation to honing Plane Blades as the steel , angle, and pressure is way different...

You make good points, but flattening is flattening. Whether one uses
a diamond stone or the three stone technique, the flattening itself is the same for sharpening razors as it is for plane blades.

The only difference would be the frequency of flattening.

Edit.. I also used the "rubbing the stones together" routine way in the past, that is probably the best way to embed grit from one stone to another, at least in my limited experience with using it..

Yes that could happen as well. You got a good point there.

Maybe to solve this would it be possible to use a soft coarse stone to flattten the harder intermediate and finishing stones? I am thinking that because the middle and finishing stone are harder than the soft coarse(1000 grit) stone, the softer grit is much less likely to embed in the harder hone. Not sure though.

Just my two cents, which might be worth less than that.

Sharpman

[gssixgun]

Sorry but I disagree from experience...

One, the flatness of at least the DMT plates are way more exact then any water stone...

Two, the particle loss an the chance of embedding are a thousand fold worse with any other flattening media over the DMT plates...

Three, the fact that I have lapped literally thousands of times with the one DMT kinda tells me it is not shedding Diamonds at least not at any appreciable rate...

The same is also true of the Shapton DGLP except the part about lapping Barber's Hones

I have used the "rub the stones together" option in the past, the results are nowhere near as good... And I would definitely NOT rub any of my 1k stone together the chances of grit contamination form that would be much much higher then using a DMT...

Your idea of the low grit to a higher grit actual IME caused the worst of the embedding problems

Again I am speaking from Straight Razor honing experience, I have no experience honing plane blades, and those are quite different, so your results might be quite different too...
Note that I am only referencing the DMT plate(s) and the Shapton DGLP plate as those are what I have used...

[adrspach]

[QUOTE=SharpMan;752456]Yes, three stones of the same grit and type. You can use these to
precisely flatten each stone.

Rub:
1 A on B, A on C, B on C
2 B on A, B on C, A on C
3 C on B, C on A, A on B

Every time you do this, your stones get flatter. Just make
sure that your stones are not convex because that would make
things worse as the stones while rubbing them would rock.

Sharpman

You are a lucky man. Is it more economical and effective for you to purchase 3 same hones instead of one and DMT plate. I am just imagining 220, 1000, 3000, 5000, 8000, 12000, 16000, 30000 and all of them 3 times. Can you succesfuly explain this to my wife? I promiss you a decent pint if you succeed.

[JimmyHAD]

I've been using a Shapton GDLP and a DMT 325 for a few years now with no complaints and I'm almost a compulsive flattener. I hone in the kitchen with the rock on the counter in front of the sink and the plate in the sink. Turn on the water and I might flatten a stone more than once in honing one razor. So far so good and no contamination from diamond particle loss with the plates.