Thread: Coticule help - have an edge, but can't get it sharp

I think ive got it right,a coticule produces the best shaving edge not the sharpest necessarily.A synthetic stone can produce an extreemly sharp edge,unfortunately often producing an uncomfortable shave due to scratching pattern on the edge,fortunately for us if that blade is subjected to a coticule water only no slurry,one can get the best of both worlds,the coticule will not remove the super sharpness of the synthetic,but will smooth out the scratches,giving the best shave.I believe a coticule is best for bevel use as the slurry, although will take the extreemly sharp edge off a well honed razor, will for bevel use keep
burrs and false edges at bay creating the perfect bevel.Anyhow that is how i understand it.Unfortunatly i have a couple of french razors and a japanese that doesnt do too well due to very hard steel on my coticule
Ive ordere a Sigma 11 select for this, i will give a final finish on the coticule without slurry for the perfect edge.Sorry if the English is not up to much.

Originally Posted by Utopian

I am a big fan of sentences.

Take it easy on Gary Haywood, he's a coti expert.

Alot depends on your individual coticule. Rather then going by vein, go by hardness and speed and time. Harder coti's will often take more time, while coarser ones most often take less at setting an edge. I don't bother with that x-stroke and pressure crap. I use have strokes with consistent pressure like I was using an erasure on a pencil marking and go through 3 stages (heavy slurry, BBW or medium slurry and light slurry to water only or even water with dish soap). I get consistent results everytime and I find cotis to be easy and an enjoyment to use compared to the boring synthetics where you have to count strokes and get predictable results.

Originally Posted by prodigy

my personal experience with coticules is that they are so highly over rated as a finishing stone its down right disheartening. There are some stones out there i suppose that do a superb job, but of the 6 or so ive tried, and the razors ive sent out for professional honing on a coti, ive never been impressed. Theres a mystical code that needs to be discovered and cracked, and its different for every stone. the shaves are smooth but on my facial hair its tug central. My advice is sell it and get a known quality jnat. they are superior in every way to any coticule. check japanese-whetstones.com.

You must have had the misfortune of being given 6 or so duds for coti's. My la grosse jaune leaves an edge, second to none, including the J-nats. I'm talking sharp as a shapton and velvety smooth. I personally, would rather use coticule then anything else to be quite honest.

Originally Posted by Benz

I doubt that I will ever take advantage of Lynn's free first honing on my new Boker, but if I ever do there will be a note to him requesting that the razor be honed on his coticule. All these years of shaving with a coticule finish edge is why I hate my shavette and safety razors.

This.

After shaving with a coticule edge for nearly a year now, I'll never go to a synthetic. The edges I am getting are so good to my skin, that the harshness of a synthetic has no appeal to me.

Originally Posted by Slawman

For finishing, I was told to use the running water to keep the loose garnets & swarf away from the blade so you have less scratches to deal with.I tried it both ways & looked at both edges under my microscope & the edge looked less scratched with running water. Lord knows I am no expert by any means But this made a difference.
Today I picked up some 12,000 grit I guess it's nano cloth or cloth backed sand paper. I have an old L. West razor that I had worked up to 10,000 on stones& I just did 20 rounds on this material & 50 rounds on my Koken shell Horse hide strop & WOW, I could never get this razor to cut hanging hair & it did it well. I am a happy camper!

Dave Huffman ;-)

An easier and even more effective method is to use water mixed with dish soap. The slickness of the dish soap takes it to a different level that water only hasn't yet done for me, in fact I can get my edges wicked sharp using this method.

Originally Posted by adductum

I think ive got it right,a coticule produces the best shaving edge not the sharpest necessarily.A synthetic stone can produce an extreemly sharp edge,unfortunately often producing an uncomfortable shave due to scratching pattern on the edge,fortunately for us if that blade is subjected to a coticule water only no slurry,one can get the best of both worlds,the coticule will not remove the super sharpness of the synthetic,but will smooth out the scratches,giving the best shave.I believe a coticule is best for bevel use as the slurry, although will take the extreemly sharp edge off a well honed razor, will for bevel use keep
burrs and false edges at bay creating the perfect bevel.Anyhow that is how i understand it.Unfortunatly i have a couple of french razors and a japanese that doesnt do too well due to very hard steel on my coticule
Ive ordere a Sigma 11 select for this, i will give a final finish on the coticule without slurry for the perfect edge.Sorry if the English is not up to much.

My razors are TI's with the new Carbonsong 135 steel, they are probably the hardest steel of any carbon steel razor out there, but the coticule works wonders on these. Maybe using more pressure will solve the issue for you?

Coticules will cut pretty much any steel. Mine cut my HSS (high speed steel) razor with no issues. The problem most people have with them I think is that in going from slurry to water they aren't working back down to the apex. Using slurry slightly convexes the bevel, and for some coticules it takes a LOT of honing to get back to the apex on straight water (if you switch from slurry directly to straight water it will be very obvious that all the work is being done on the bevel on the side away from the apex - it will get very shiny there and remain dull at the apex end).

That is why in many cases I recommend unicot method for folks new to coticules. If you are having trouble getting a good edge with a coticule, put a layer of tape on the spine and do 30 laps on straight water then strop - if that doesn't get you a good shaving edge, something else is wrong - like your bevel isn't fully apexed.

The only exception to that would be if you have a very soft coticule that self-slurries. Those are tougher to get a good finish on. You can try finishing under running water but that may not do it either - last ditch you can polish the surface up to a high level with wet/dry to something like 2k and then try again under running water.

I'm going to experiment with moving from the coti on water to moving to the BBW on soapy water since the BBW has fewer garnets.