Thread: Naniwa decisions...

Originally Posted by bluemantra

I'm looking to buy a set of synthetic hones and I'm pretty sure I'm going to go with the Naniwa's. I'm looking at getting the 5k/8k/12k package. I have a few coticules currently and was wondering if I'd be ok going to my coticule after the Naniwa 8k and then I could just buy the 5k/8k. Also is my DMT 325 a good enough tool to lap the Naniwa's?

Thanks

The Nani 5/8/12k package from SRD is a great package for anyone & that really can't be debated. A razor finished by an experienced coti honer and a razor finished on a Nani 12K by a experienced honer will just be a matter of opinion of edges. We all have different opinions.

What you have to understand is that you have to learn each and every stone you are honing with. If you knew your coti's, you wouldn't be asking this question. You have several coti's, why would you want to get just a Nani 5/8K? They are too close to one another (in the grit "range") and you would not really gain much on the shaving side of things except knowledge of other stones. With your being newer to honing, I would be willing to bet that you would gain more from the Nani 5/8/12k set now, but once you learn to really hone and revisit the coti's you will find that you can get a exceptional shave off the coti as well. Then you would have to decide which edge you preferred as they would be real close to one another in regards to the science of it all...

I can tell you that I personally believe that synthetics are easier to learn and a little more forgiving than natural stones...which are great for a beginner & you would benefit from them. Have fun with it!

On the lapping, the DMT 325 is fine, but should not take 3 hours to lap. If it's taking more than about 15 minutes per stone...you are doing something wrong & you need some help/guidance from a veteran. Naniwa's are quite soft & lap very easily.

wow i have a very hard coti and under the scope the scratch pattern finer then my 8k naniwa but again we are talking about natural stones and i have a fine one maybe jeness you should evaluate the amount of pressure your using on your hone seem's to me your a little heavy handed

Originally Posted by jeness

I don't think so. The 8k naniwa looks much better under the scope than a coti, but the coti edge is superior. The scratch pattern doesn't tell you anything.

From my experience, depending on the coticule stones you use, the Naniwa 8K may end up feeling smoother and sharper than a coticule edge. I'd experiment and see which on you like better and use either the coticule or the naniwa 8K in the 8K slot of your progression, some steels may like one or another more...

I might be wrong, but I remember that my coti leaves a bit of scatchy finish on the bevel, while the nani 8k near perfect mirror. While the naniwa looks better, the coti shaves better for me.

Synthetic stones and Natural stones are going to leave very different scratch patterns on an edge. Coticule edges look somewhat sandblasted due to the garnet shape and how they "Scoop cut" the edge and not just cut like other stones. The facets of the garnets cut scoops from the bevel's edge like a shovel scooper.
Coticules are gentle on the skin, which is why I think so many barbers used them in the old days, it was harder to cut a client with a Coticule edge.

For me to get an acceptable edge from my coticules, I use oil or lather, that helps a lot with sharpness limits.

I think so too. Thats why I said that the bevel and scratch patterns do not tell you how good the shave will be, or how fine your stone is.

Originally Posted by jeness

I think so too. Thats why I said that the bevel and scratch patterns do not tell you how good the shave will be, or how fine your stone is.

Your going to find that making large all encompassing statements like this will normally find you in a position of being proved wrong...

Scratch patterns can most certainly help to determine grit , just not on the stone you use...

Comparing Naniwa SS hones to a natural stone by scratch patterns is pretty much useless, which I believe is what you meant

Yes, thank you very much for pointing this out Glen. Certanly it can be useful to compare scratch patterns, and I do it sometimes too to get an idea of a new hones capabilities.

Yep me too I look at the pattern and the type of finish it is producing, I find this very helpful with Naturals less so with Synthetics... Helps me determine what is going on and how the stone is reacting with the steel...
Synthetics tend to be pretty straight forward in their cutting and polishing arena they just pretty much do the job...

Thanks everyone for the help. I went ahead and ordered the Naniwa 5/8/12k package. I want use a synthetic progression and the Naniwa's is what I went for. I have a 1k stone I can bevel set with.