Thread: How about lapping with silicon carbide?

I just bought a new Norton 4k-8k combo hone and wondered if lapping it with silicon carbide would work okay. I use it for leveling the water stones for my EdgePro Pro and it works just fine. In fact, I now have Ben's stone leveling kit which is a circle of plate glass bound by round rubber-tube edging to keep everything in place. Put a little water and some silicon carbide on the glass and it makes quick work leveling stones that are from 120 to 320 grit. (Haven't had to level the 600 yet!) It's a great way to go for these water stones, but would it be okay to use with the Norton? What think?

Thanks,

Bruce

It's fine for lower grit hones. The problem with doing it on the Norton is the risking of embedding grit into the hone. As long as you are very careful to clear all of the grit off, then you might be okay with it. Personally, I don't think it's worth the risk given how cheap a pack of wet/dry sandpaper is, but if you try it, please report back here.

Low grit lapping may need only when stone has serious defect. Mostly I use for lapping sandpaper scotched to a glass. Results are always good. With natural and artificial stones both.

It's SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) for almost every single Japanese made waterstone that is commercially available to the best of my knowledge. Maybe a little rough on the higher grit stones, but clean them off after flattening and you'll be fine.

(I sell stones, so this next bit makes some sense.)

I provide a small bottle of #36 loose SiC grit with one stone in particular because it's the only way to successfully flatten and condition that particular stone since the stone is very coarse and very, very hard.

I never EVER recommend that sandpaper be used to flatten any stone because as it's been told to me (by 3 different manufacturers, no names) using sandpaper risks embedding grit and/or adhesive in the stone, which is a contaminant and then needs to be removed, defeating the purpose of using the sandpaper in the first place. If you are embedding loose grit in the stone, then you're pushing down too hard. The grit needs to roll.

I can accept that some people like to use sandpaper to flatten their stones, and that's fine. Go that way if you wish.

In short, get some finer loose grit (up to #1000 if you can find it) and go for it.


(I use a diamond plate myself. Faster, less trouble, nicer job. No, it's not a DMT.)

Stu.

Could you clarify this please? I normally use diamond plates as well, but I have lapped hones with wet/dry sandpaper, not dry sandpaper which normally has embedded silicon carbide. If you consider it best practice to use loose silicone carbide to lap, then what is the harm in using sandpaper that has silicone carbide or some other grit that is attached? The former definitely has loose grit that could embed and the latter only might release some loose grit that could embed. Why do you say that the loose grit is safe to use while the attached grit that may become loose is not safe to use?

I'm not arguing. I just don't understand.

As it was told to me by a Shapton rep and a Naniwa rep on separate occasions...

If you use wet and dry paper, there is a chance that when the paper breaks down small 'flakes' of adhesive backed abrasive may either lodge into or adhere to the stone. It's not so much the abrasive, but the adhesive. The chance is small, but possible and if there is any contaminant on the stone, it may be difficult to see and may/will cause problems.

Using loose grit on a hard, flat surface, there is no chance anything can embed in the stone as the loose grit only rolls around and chips away at the stone. Once the stone is washed clean, anything on it is washed away and you're left with a clean, flat stone. If any loose grit embeds in the stone, then you're pushing too hard. Waaay too hard. The weight of the stone should be sufficient, no more.

Sigma Power made no mention of sandpaper only loose grit and diamond plates, and they also sell diamond plate and loose abrasive specifically for flattening and conditioning their stones.

I don't think the problem is worth worrying about with softer stones like King and Norton, but with harder stones like Shapton, Chosera, Sigma Power, Bester, etc. Then the problem is more likely and more annoying when/if it does happen.


Kind of like having a little bit of sticker from the Naniwa Superstone on the stone in a random pattern, and you're not expecting it to be there.


I'm not saying you can't use sandpaper, but since I've been told "don't do it!" from three manufacturers and there are better, cheaper ways of doing the job, I cannot let it be without putting up a argument against it from the folks who make stones.

Norton does say you can use sandpaper, as do King. They're the only two and King do not mention it for their newer generation stones (Neo & Hyper), only the old formula Deluxe.

I hope that helps, and answers the question.


Stu.

OK, I'll respectfully disagree. I find it highly improbable that a piece of grit, rolling around as you described, would stick to the hone due to a bit of adhesive. If the adhesive was insufficient to remain stuck to the paper, I don't see how it could manage to stick to the hone during all that rolling around.

How about if the loose grit was, let's say twice the size of the grit of the stone and it was harder than the stone so it did not break into smaller particles in the grinding process, this way with the pressure only of the stone there would be no smaller loose grit to become imbedded. Larger loose particles should not be a problem with the final surface of the stone because this is a lapping process. If you wanted to go to the next step of polishing the stone surface then another polishing stone could be used.

Utopian,

That's fine by me. I didn't decide it was a good or bad idea, I only asked the question and got that answer.

Besides, it's not the adhesive 'being glue' that's the problem, it's more that it's a foreign material of a less than hard nature, but still quite durable. Heck, it might be the paper itself that's the concern and I goofed in the translation.

Whatever it is, I asked, got told and that's it. I flatly refuse to do it because I've got 4 diamond plates to choose from as well as a selection of loose grits and a kanaban. Oddly, scotch brite is fine. No, not flat but for cleaning and conditioning. I thought that odd, but it does work well enough.


It's kind of odd asking some of these questions. I know the answer already, and sometimes know the answer better than the person I'm asking but I've still got to ask just to make sure I've got 'the official line'.

Worst is asking Sigma Power some questions...

Some really odd stuff I've had to ask, and we both know I know the answer already but I've still got to ask the question. They know why thankfully, so they know I'm not a complete idiot.

Stu.

(P.S. If anyone out there does manage to contaminate their stone with sandpaper, I'd really like to hear about it. I've never seen it myself, and only heard of a few cases.)

Okay, I think I'm gonna try lapping the Norton with silicon carbide on the Edge Pro stone flattening kit. I'll report back what happens -- or doesn't. Thanks to all of you for your input. I appreciate it very much! It's so great to have some place to ask these kinds of questions and get real answers!

Bruce