Thread: General Buying Guide for Hones. Tips from the pros.

Originally Posted by mainaman

I think no amount of written words about features and what to look for in a stone will ever substitute for experience.

+1

Originally Posted by mainaman

If you want to be on the safe side and save good amount of funds , look the classifieds and get tested stones from there.

Not as true as I'd like it to be. The classifieds used to be reliable in terms of hone type attributions, but they certainly aren't any-more. And no, seller reputation is no indication whatsoever: I've seen even the nicest and most knowledgeable members making demonstrably erroneous type attributions. Sad really.

In case this is in reference to me...

I have a basic norton set up, and moved up to a nani12k and a c12. I purchased an escher. I'm going through the natural progression to honing. Trying to achieve the best edge available. There are so many stones out there that may be useful for other things (tools, knives), but not razors.

If you haven't noticed, this site is built around helping people on all things shaving related. I kinda hope you would have been "tired" enough not to spout your lame assumptions. It would have been easier for you to not even open the thread if it bothers you. Elitists are the biggest type of tools.

I'd also like to point out that I started this thread to gain knowledge NOT to make a profit. If I were to find a quality hone at an antique store my intention would not be to flip it to make money. I'm just working toward the best shave possible.

Originally Posted by Oldengaerde

Threads like this tire me. What's the use of explaining how to recognize "a diamond in the rough" to one who wouldn't recognize nor appreciate the specifics of a diamond in the first place?

Don't understand me wrongly: I don't begrudge anyone the joys of an Escher or a Water of Ayr. But let's start with understanding and appreciating the basics

- quick buys and easy re-sales solely based on key-words and hearsay are not at all in short demand.



If the question were: how to make sure attributions are correct?- well, that is a useful question indeed. Far too many hones are classified solely based on expected profits rather than by careful evaluation of their characteristics, by those in the know as well as the oblivious. I'd be happy to cooperate in countering such.

Originally Posted by jcsixx

Elitists are the biggest type of tools.

AMEN, brother.....

Oldengaerde's reply was colored by a rant I sent him an hour before his post, I doubt it was directed at you, jcsixx, or maybe not more than a little bit lol. The rant was about an antique shop we both know and occasionly buy vintage hones from. They sometimes offer unique stones but often don't know exactly what they're selling. They're familiar with Charnley Forest Hones and their popularity and because of that they are eager to label anything remotely green as a Charnley Forest and price them as such. I had already bought 5 so called CFs from them, each of them something else and this time they had sold me another slate

I suggested to Oldengaerde to give them some pointers on how to recognize a real CF on his next visit.

It is hard to find good stones and any tips given by the 'pros' will make it a little bit harder and expensive for them to keep finding them. However I'm always eager to help identify a new purchase which often helps me find more diamonds in the rough as well.

The elitist aspect of what I posted escapes me. My concern is with the extent to which the value of careful study and diligent effort towards understanding basics are disregarded. An increasing amount of people seem to be under the impression everything can, and indeed should, be achieved via a quick and easy route.

Asking randomly about specifics of a myriad of high-end natural hones with the stated aim to "find a diamond in the rough" to me was like asking "where do I go for a Dogo Argentino or a Borzoi or a Ratonero Bodeguero Andaluz and what do they look like? Maybe I'll find a champ!" with just rudimental knowledge on dogs and without knowing anything about these particular breeds (except maybe hear-say about their fabulous properties) or how to properly care for them at all. And asking such questions on a forum where there is, as you rightly point out, already a wealth of information (including detailed discussions on the points you touch, about the various hones you mention) provided by willing fellow-members, to be found with the slightest effort, only makes it worse.

An additional issue is that identifying hones can be very difficult. If even experienced members often have to approach matters carefully and reservedly, how can we expect people who seem to demonstrate a certain reluctance to put in a dedicated effort in understanding even the basics, to help foster knowledge of these stones? On the contrary: wouldn't chances be they unwittingly repeat half-truths? A little knowledge easily misleads. We have seen more than a few unfortunate misattributions by those insisting on taking the quick and easy route.

Another comparison: a core value is to provide guests with the best of what we can offer. To sip a 1934 Niepoort Colheita at the hearth alone with a good book is nice, but I enjoy it more drinking it together and won't instead pull out a run-of-the-mill no-name ruby port when unexpected guests turn up. At the same time however, I'd never ever gift a bottle of that Niepoort to an acquaintance who never drunk anything but the no-name ruby and who will probably just use the Niepoort to mix in dessert sauces.

Were this acquaintance to enquire about expensive wines, I'd suggest him to try a variety of more common styles first, read on the subject, and invest in developing an understanding (theoretical as well in practice) of what fine wines are about. Guiding him along the path would be my pleasure.

Is that elitist? I don't think so. Elitist is setting oneself apart from others and begrudging them joys perceived as own privileges - something I explicitly denounced. If one starts threads with the purpose "to gain knowledge", one should be prepared to be educated. That has little to do with answering silly, lazy questions, it is about explaining which questions to ask in the first place. Education is not about providing easy answers, education is enabling people to find answers themselves. Education is about promoting insight.

As I wrote, I'll happily (continue to) contribute towards our (ie: my own as well as your) better understanding of hones, but in general I think it would be nice to see more of an effort to absorb what is already here and only then ask sensible, specific questions.