Thread: Can anyone read the stamps on this hone?

Hmm I could of sworn that it said rub here for three wishes...


Guess my Japanese isn't up to par yet.

Originally Posted by zib

Naturals are Naturals, It's like pizza, It's all good, it's just some's better than other's.....Test drive them...

That's awesome! I may have to use that.

Originally Posted by shooter74743

As in it will make a great paperweight? Dude, I'm bummed...

Don't be bummed. From the size of the stone I would expect you didn't sell the farm to buy it.
Unless its got big nasty scratchy particles it will work in some sense. And if its too soft for razors you can maybe use it for slurry or knives or tools or ... a paperweight if all else fails. Just don't use it for pizza topping

I remember that these stamps showed up not too long ago.

They read at the left down, Yamashiro-mei-do (Yamashiro Co., Made by, toishi/stone.) and to the right Sho-hon-yama- hokakuhin (true, original, mountain, genuine.). This is not strictly a 330mate stone, but maybe just a stone that Nakaoka-san <aka.330mate> who bought from the Yamashiro company. Yamashiro is an Osaka company and they are a stone consolidator, they mass purchase stone as well as tools and building products. As far as I know they do not actually produce any products.

The Yamashiro Co. buys stone from all over Japan by the metric ton, trucks it back to Osaka, and they mark it all with these stamps. This is a common brand name of toishi in hardware stores in Japan and sold for sharpening tools and this is why some stones sent in the mail to users here in the U.S. are good and some are not. They are sold by the piece retail and by the dozen wholesale and the only the quality control in place is what your contact in Japan exerts. Evidently some users here have discovered how to sharpen a razor with a tool grade stone, or some of these stones are actually razor grade. But this vague Yamashiro, translated as "Mountain Castle" brand is not an actual mine nor is it a guarantee of quality, just availability. I hope you stone is a good one for you. best of luck, alx

P.S. that is their phone number on the side if you want to call them. a

Alex, that stamp on the side is the address for Sazare, the company registered to the same owner as 330mate.com as well as Fujibato.com. There is no phone number.

In addition, I'd like to ask you more about Yamashiro because I have never seen a single Yamashiro stone in any of the dozens of DIY shops I've been to in Western Japan. The Yamashiro stones I have seen on the internet have all been stamped with Sazare. I think it likely that, seeing as how the same man has already registered three company names to sell stones, Yamashiro is another of his names.

@ OP,
I am sure this stone will work as prepolisher if it does not work for finisher so don't be bummed.

No, no farm double-mortgaged here...I think I have around $20 or so in it. I honestly don't remember. I'm not one to put a chunk out for something I don't know much about. These JNATS are one of them. I have a nakayama asagi that I enjoy using, but that was after a lot of reading and researching.

Jim
You are absolutely right, I confussed Yamashiro with Yamato, a prominent Osaka stone consolidator and major abrasives mfg. And I agree, these are the stamps of 330Mate. Sadly I do not actually read or write Japanese, and I am sorry for this slip up which could have been avoided if I had looked at some of my old notes.

However Shooter, my wife was kind enough to provide this translation for this particular stone and much of the information that follows.

The kanji in the rectangle reads down SHO HON ZAN HON KAKU HIN or correct original mountain original source. And the other kanji reads YAMASHIRO. On the side of the stone is SAZARE-MEITO KABUSHIKIGAISHA or Sazare-Meito Company, 563-0027 (zip code) Osake-fu. Is this how you read it?

Sho Hon Zan Hon Kaku Hin is again just a way to suggest it is from the original source without really saying what that source is. Most mines still in business like Ohira will stamp their stones with the name of the mine, but in the old days only a few did and it was mostly the wholesales who stamped the stones. A few miners did however and one in particular stamped the ends like Nakaoka-san is doing on the sides.

With the risk of repeating myself, the poetic stamps, like on this stone are just an example of a wholesaler having his own stamps made up for him to give the stones a feeling like they fit in some where in the market place. He is not infringing upon any ones copyrighted stamps, but he is attempting to market the stones so that will become recognizable as his. There is a whole new breed of wholesalers, apart from the miners, who will consolidate unmarked stones from different sources with the idea to retail them out with their own stamps. It is a niche market and the internet is the perfect compliment for moving these stones.

From what I can gleem, and with the understanding that the large area around Nara and Kyoto has over 1000 years of active history, this whole greater area around Kyoto, Nara and maybe even Osaka was once included as the Yamashiro no Kuni area. This super area became more defined when the capitol was moved from Nara to Kyoto, and furthermore delineated as cities like Osaka became prominant in the Edo Period. Finally after the second world war and currently now, the last vestage in the area just to the west of the city limits with the Umegahata village as the center and including Narutaki and Takao is, in the local stone world known as Kyu Yamashiro or Old Yamashiro.

If you look at a map of Kyoto you will see that much of the city property is taken up and owned in big blocks by the various multitude of Buddhist and Shinto sects, this is also true of the mountains surrounding Kyoto and to the west where all of the major stone mine were located. This area called Kyu (old) Yama (mountain) shiro (castle/fortress) may have been just that, a mountain haven with hidden defensible monasteries built like fortresses similar to the ones Nobunaga Oda attacted in the late 1500s and could explain the early defined usage of Yamashiro.

I have first hand information that one of the minor mountains in this Kyu Yamashiro area around Mt. Atago that contains a major producing awasedo mine, is owned and always has been owned by a particular Buddhist sect. This mine is operated privately and the contract is for the mineral rights but the land is on leased basis. Furthermore there is evidence to suggest that many if not all of the old mines were dug under these condtions, on leased land owned by the various religious groups.


Below are photos of some old boxes that I have collected, 4 of them are stamped with the Yamashiro reference.

Hello.
I forgot older account. approx 2yrs ago. And I remake new one sorry..
I will introduce in wrong English.
Most of selling stones are come from wholesalers and they has own stamps.
Unfortunately here is ISO8859-1 characters format. because I cannot write JP KANJI letter...Hmm UTF-8 is the best for international...
Certainly our company is located in Osaka pref. Not Central kyoto city. traditional state name is "Settu".
here is a good place to deal with domestic whole sellers and making parcels.
And our mine and making factory is located in 14 Mukainochi cho Umegahata Ukyo ward Kyoto city JP that known as Nakayama mine well and Toshidani Tobe city Ehime pref. JP
Check google map please? Yamashiro state's more older name is Jyohshu.
It means the state of emperor's chaste in middle ages calls.
The area is include in Central Kyoto city, southern Kyoto etc.
Otherwise Tanba is well known as mines of JNATS.
This is Kameoka city , Yagi city ,Nantan city ,Tanba city. They are located in between western Kyoto prefecture and Hyogo prefecture.
Our YAMASHIROMATE stamp is developed by the 16th gene master miner Choujyu Yamamoto, who died in 1968, 68yrs old.
In those days it is so rare case ,miners sells for consumers.
Because it is not popular and may be suspicious!
Now the 17th gene master miner Minoru Yamamoto is my master.
Yamamoto family is the miner of Yamashiro region.
Narutaki,Nakayama,kanjiki,beniyama,okudo,shiroto,o hzuku,tento,gosenryo,sougoroh,suitaguchi,osaki,sho ushiro,takayama,kizuyama and more are belong to Yamashiro region.
Most of them are also belong to Shouhonyama area.
16th duged Narutaki,nakayama,shiroto,sougoroh,Atago mainly. His brother master miner Ushinosuke Yamamoto dug okudo,shoushiro,Kizuyama.
17th relative Seiichi Fujita was a general of Nakayama,and Osaki etc.
Our 2 stamps are Yamamoto miner's stamps.
Yamashiromate means the stone come from Yamashiro region (And limitted central kyoto city within 20Km distance from Kyoto-gosho castle )because Atagomine is drop out.
Shouhonyamahonkakuhin means come from Honma family's territory .
Honma family own between mid age (discovered JNATS era approx 1100-1200) and end of edo era (1867).
1st place was Osaki mine it is one of Shobu volley mine.
Now Yamamoto family and Katoh family own Honma territory mainly.
The Maruka stamps means come from Katoh territory.

In fact the most of plates come from central Kyoto city was picked up by Yamamoto family.
I am pupil of the 17th gene. Master is born in 1934! Last year, he became inactive.
Recently I capture Osaki,Ohzuku,Sohgoro,Nakayama mainly.
Some of Nakayama is dug by open-air mining method and softer tomonagura plates bares well.

I also know Honma family, but they moved little western area.
Unfortunately, there is no plates..
Many Yamamoto family and relative are live in Yamashiro region centl Kyoto city Ukyo ward Umegahata.
Here is just a vein of 1st class stones.
But all of their Jobs are not miner... The 17th gene is also no daughters.
They are temple carpenter, barber shop , fish meal store ,timbers and so on.

Thanks

I bought similar stones more than a one and a half year ago.. stamps says - somewhat ok for knives and useless for razors. I sold both of them