Thread: How to start with naturals

Having recently travelled the path you want to follow, I suggest getting an old inexpensive razor with which to practice, it was suggested to me to get a Norton 4/8 combo and to work on it. Then a Chinese 12k to finish what I achieved on the Nortons. Lastly, I was lucky enough to buy a JNat from Jim R. But I do not suggest that you go to the JNats until you become most proficient with the Nortons. Good luck on your journey, I have found mine to be most rewarding.

These guys are all wrong...i am the only one you should listen to...no, not really i don't know jack about honing I just know what has been working for me..i recently got into jnats also. I. Like thejapanblade.com guy's site. It brings a little zen to the learning process. And he is very accomodating. He will send stones until you can fi d the right one for your style aand blade...very cool...nice fellow.

Hello Wintchase

Thanks for the mention. I generally try to encourage fellows (no gals as of yet) to try out a few stones at the same time to make comparrisons against each other, like a stone bake off, plus against the stones they have already. This was the old fashion way of buying stones in Japan, a stone merchant would visit the barber shops with a selection of stones for the barber to try out and he could pick and choose.

These days this would be a luxury situtation, but the basic idea is still a good one. Some users know what they are looking for and what they want, but in the case of you Carazor, and other newbies the best option would be to test out a group of stones or better yet to locate a member of the STP here who lives nearby that might host you for a couple of hours some day to test out their stones in a comparrison and learning situation. This would be the best of all worlds because their established honing skills could rub off on you along with their stone knowledge.

Maybe mini regional "hone-in's" could happen every once in a while to diseminate some skills on a small spontanious scale. Good luck with it all, no matter where your next stone comes from, I guarantee it will be a learning experience. Alx


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Above all, buy from a reputable dealer and from one who uses the stones to do what they say they do - at least at first. You can branch off and bargain hunt later on, or try unproven stones, but the reputable dealers will sell you exactly what they say they're selling.

I've bought natural stones from probably about five different places, maybe more. Of course, the reputable dealers will often not have bargains that appear to be such if you are just comparing the size of the stones at a given price level, but in the end if your objective really is to hone with a good stone and not to tinker around with some OK stones and some substandards, it is my opinion that the good dealers (and probably the very knowledgable users who like to run through stones) really are the best value.

I have not bought a razor stone from alex, but a woodworking stone several years ago. I did not buy one of of the super rare stones, but instead a fairly large (#30 size) suita that is a fast-cutting practical stone to use as an everyday last step on tooling. It is an absolute treat to use every time I have the chance to put wrought iron and steel to it, and very practical to use because it cuts fast for its grit (cheap stones often will cut slowly or unevenly for their grit size).

The stones I have gotten from fujibato (330mate) and a guy who goes by metalmaster on ebay, and from hida have all been decent stones for woodworking (i.e., tolerable), but they all have compromises and I wish with all of the other money I've spent tinkering around, I would've just gotten two more stones from alex, So or one of the other top end sellers. The stones I've gotten elswhere are either uneven, not as fine as advertised (I literally was able to replace an aoto with two of them, but that's not a pleasant thing have semi-finishers that cost what finishers cost you), or are fine but cut too slowly to be practical to use and don't even cut fast with a slurry. Hida was honest about what they have, I'll give them credit for that. It's just not as good as what alex has.

So that's my advice - buy smart from a reputable place, not cheap. Because you can buy synthetic hones left and right, and you can buy a lot of natural stones that don't really improve on synthetic hones, but folks want to believe they're better or tout them as such just because they're natural. Good naturals really are better finishers. Crapshoot natural stones are not.

Remember one thing: there's no real magic to natural hones. Eschers, coticules and Jnats are, with few exceptions, finishers to be used after the bevel is set. Buy from a reputable vendor and play around a bit.Try one at a time and get to grips with it.

Find some folks around you who have some finishers. If you are this way (check the community map) just contact me. Best advice is learn your system of stones thru 12k (if using Nani's) or 16K (for shapton gs). The nani 12K would be the first finisher I would recommend as it's about as consistent as an atomic time clock. When your skills are ready, find someone who has a few finishers and go over and have beers...

I don't think you can go wrong with a coticule from a reputable seller. These are specially selected coticules for razor use, some of which in my experience are the most versatile natural stones there are. Having said that, some are only capable of finishing, which is the beauty of naturals - no two are quite the same.

Chinese waterstones are also reputed amongst the community to be excellent finishers, and though infamously referred to as 'Chinese 12K' this is somewhat of a paradox, namely because such naturals are not comprised of grit and the scratch pattern they impart is said by respected members to be less fine than an artificial 12K stone, although to add another limb of confusion, certain specimens have been reported to exceed the finish of a 12K.

To conclude: buy a cheaper natural first, see if you prefer it to your existing arsenal, then become a rockhound.

Originally Posted by alx

Hello Wintchase

Thanks for the mention. I generally try to encourage fellows (no gals as of yet) to try out a few stones at the same time to make comparrisons against each other, like a stone bake off, plus against the stones they have already. This was the old fashion way of buying stones in Japan, a stone merchant would visit the barber shops with a selection of stones for the barber to try out and he could pick and choose.

These days this would be a luxury situtation, but the basic idea is still a good one. Some users know what they are looking for and what they want, but in the case of you Carazor, and other newbies the best option would be to test out a group of stones or better yet to locate a member of the STP here who lives nearby that might host you for a couple of hours some day to test out their stones in a comparrison and learning situation. This would be the best of all worlds because their established honing skills could rub off on you along with their stone knowledge.

Maybe mini regional "hone-in's" could happen every once in a while to diseminate some skills on a small spontanious scale. Good luck with it all, no matter where your next stone comes from, I guarantee it will be a learning experience. Alx


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I am your biggest advocate. You are my Max of hones...You both have a knack for bringing a zen to your work...That is the big secret in life....Make the morning shave the best, because everything else after that is nothing but interuption and interferrence, and irritation. If you can control that one thing (the shave), everything else can be dealt with.

Carazor you do not mention in your post where you are located, how long you have been using a straight and other things that might give us some sense of what you want. The journey to J-Nats might be long or it might be very easy for you. Once a bevel is set one can use Nagura and a moderately price mid priced J-Nat to get very close to what you want out of a stone. There are certain skills that one must have to hone and if you are resolute about learning on a J-Nat then that is very doable but, I would encourage you to go with a $200 mid grade before stepping up to a wold class hone that can easily cost you over $1000. My Asagi cost in the neighborhood of $1500 and I have never been sorry about the purchase, it is an amazing stone.

One of the easiest ways to do what you want to do is go have someone who is fairly well educated in hones show you.....actually put eyeballs and ears and fingers on a hone while someone is showing you how. It will save weeks of effort and answer thousands of questions but you must have shaved long enough with a straight to tell the difference between a razor honed on a 12K or a fine finishing Asagi. Not an easily accomplished feat!

So... I will cut the ramblings off but if you wish to PM me I could possibly head you off in a direction that may not be what everyone else has done but one that I have found rewarding! This is, after all, a personal journey so enjoy!

Take Care,
Richard

You know what happens, of course? You get hooked and every time someone mentions any new kind of natural, you immediately try to buy it. So really, just buy anything first because in the end you'll get them all anyway.

James, FRSHA (Fellow of the Royal Society of Hone Acquisitions)