Thread: Without mentioning the seller, which natural Japanese hone did you use today?

Good morning Jim
It's dark and peaceful at 4:00am in Kanazawa. I just read you blog and immediately realized that I had read that posting already, nice job. A couple of things here, that skin does look familar and I believe it is from one of the old Shobudani/Narutaki area mines. The color is pretty intense, have you lapped the stone down beyond the stamps? I have found that old stock stones form an thin oxidized film that tints the mineral content of the exposed surface which sometimes looks sort of yellow. Also some miners coated their finished stone with egg white to seal the surface from dirt and grime and to give the stone a superior finished look for retail, this egg wash will also oxidize. I am curious if the cutting speed will gain with this gem. Alx

Originally Posted by alx

Good morning Jim
It's dark and peaceful at 4:00am in Kanazawa. I just read you blog and immediately realized that I had read that posting already, nice job. A couple of things here, that skin does look familar and I believe it is from one of the old Shobudani/Narutaki area mines. The color is pretty intense, have you lapped the stone down beyond the stamps? I have found that old stock stones form an thin oxidized film that tints the mineral content of the exposed surface which sometimes looks sort of yellow. Also some miners coated their finished stone with egg white to seal the surface from dirt and grime and to give the stone a superior finished look for retail, this egg wash will also oxidize. I am curious if the cutting speed will gain with this gem. Alx

Alex,

Yes, I have lapped it and no, the color did not change. The sides show the same color through and through--it appears to be a very homogenous stone.

In addition, the professionals I asked about this stone didn't express an instance of doubt that this is a Shiga stone, not a Shoubudani/Narutaki. What leads you to disagree?

Jim I have one Takashima that is pretty hard too, maybe the hardest non Kyoto stone i have seen color of the stone looks bit like yours no skin thought.



And i had ones Takashima that is razor quality in koppa size very hard stone Kiita too





So very good point, that not only Kyoto stones that makes super nice finishers !

Last few months I use Nakayama Nashiji for honing and Nakayama Uchigomori karasu suita (blue one)[IMG]qq[/IMG] for polishing. Both stones are superb.

Now,, i am thoughly confused (which is not unusual),,,, I bought an uchigorami and other than bevel setting sems to put a nice edge on my razors... But, i will say it is lacking that full butter feeling that i think i should get. Let explain the process and how I did it last night to try again this...
The razor was an Azuma and one was a De Pews:
1. Set bevels on 1200k (using the correct ratio for the kamisori).
2. Moved to 4000k for iniatial sharpening.
3. Once a minor amount of hair could come off i moved to the uchigorami ( friggin' beautiful stone, i may name my next child Alx).... then took a small monocular and could see that although sharp, it left a lot of sirations (lines onthe edge,not mirror).
4. I put it on a coticale.
5. Ran it on a Thuringian.
6. 16k Shapton ceramic to mirror up the edge.
7. 100 strokes on a brand new strop. Dovo.
8. Palm stropped, just for the added finer stropping.
9. Shavee.. Okay, but definety not uber...Did i mess up and use to many conflicting stones? Should i not worry about amirror result when using an uchigorami?
I went to scratch last night and Honed again with the uchi and the palm stopped to see if i just need to keep the process simpler...so, the question of the day is do I need a anoer stone like an asagi to do first before th uchi and anoer after the uchi to get that mirror look?

I am a little bit short of options here in my hotel room but this is the hone I used yesterday. I had to improvise and used another stone for raising a slurry but it all worked out. Alx

Originally Posted by Wintchase

Now,, i am thoughly confused (which is not unusual),,,, I bought an uchigorami and other than bevel setting sems to put a nice edge on my razors... But, i will say it is lacking that full butter feeling that i think i should get. Let explain the process and how I did it last night to try again this...
The razor was an Azuma and one was a De Pews:
1. Set bevels on 1200k (using the correct ratio for the kamisori).
2. Moved to 4000k for iniatial sharpening.
3. Once a minor amount of hair could come off i moved to the uchigorami ( friggin' beautiful stone, i may name my next child Alx).... then took a small monocular and could see that although sharp, it left a lot of sirations (lines onthe edge,not mirror).
4. I put it on a coticale.
5. Ran it on a Thuringian.
6. 16k Shapton ceramic to mirror up the edge.
7. 100 strokes on a brand new strop. Dovo.
8. Palm stropped, just for the added finer stropping.
9. Shavee.. Okay, but definety not uber...Did i mess up and use to many conflicting stones? Should i not worry about amirror result when using an uchigorami?
I went to scratch last night and Honed again with the uchi and the palm stopped to see if i just need to keep the process simpler...so, the question of the day is do I need a anoer stone like an asagi to do first before th uchi and anoer after the uchi to get that mirror look?

Uchigorami you meen Uchigomori ??
If so they are not so good to finish your razors on, but very nice prepolishers. If i was you i get final finesher and use it after 16 k or Thuri, it dose not have to be Asagi ! Just one that is very hard and fine will be ok.

Wintchase!

"3. Once a minor amount of hair could come off " Do I understand right that the razors didn't shave arm hair effortlessly after the 4k? If thats the case, than you went to the finer stones too early.

Originally Posted by Wintchase

Now,, i am thoughly confused (which is not unusual),,,, I bought an uchigorami and other than bevel setting sems to put a nice edge on my razors... But, i will say it is lacking that full butter feeling that i think i should get. Let explain the process and how I did it last night to try again this...
The razor was an Azuma and one was a De Pews:
1. Set bevels on 1200k (using the correct ratio for the kamisori).
2. Moved to 4000k for iniatial sharpening.
3. Once a minor amount of hair could come off i moved to the uchigorami ( friggin' beautiful stone, i may name my next child Alx).... then took a small monocular and could see that although sharp, it left a lot of sirations (lines onthe edge,not mirror).
4. I put it on a coticale.
5. Ran it on a Thuringian.
6. 16k Shapton ceramic to mirror up the edge.
7. 100 strokes on a brand new strop. Dovo.
8. Palm stropped, just for the added finer stropping.
9. Shavee.. Okay, but definety not uber...Did i mess up and use to many conflicting stones? Should i not worry about amirror result when using an uchigorami?
I went to scratch last night and Honed again with the uchi and the palm stopped to see if i just need to keep the process simpler...so, the question of the day is do I need a anoer stone like an asagi to do first before th uchi and anoer after the uchi to get that mirror look?

do I understand correctly you honed a kamisori? 1k is way too coarse for those razors, you will loose a ton of steel at that grit level.
A great stone to set bevel on a kamisori is coticule for example.

Wintchase

The short answer is: if you want a mirror finish you need to finish the blade on your natruals with just clear water, this will leave a brighter finish, a polish really, or stick to the synthetics.

The long answer is:
It looks like you've got a short handful of stones there that will give you, each on their own, a decent shave if you gave them a chance to perform the way they want to. If the uchigumori's grit is fine enough to shave from when used as a razor hone, the micro scratches can be usually polished out with some light handed watered down slurry to some 20 strokes or so with just clear water. But even before the polishing stage at that point the stone with a thin slurry should have done the job already and provided you with a shaving edge. You did not mention if you used the uchigumori with a built up slurry.

If you cannot develop a shaving edge but the stone has proven in the past to be of actual really razor quality then you may have to go back and reset the bevel on this blade. The same with the other stones, you should get a good shave using each stone on its own with some technique tailored to the stones particular characteristics. And depending on the cutting power of the stone and the slurry content, a decent hone should develop a really good edge with 40-50 strokes, and a really excellent hone should to the same work in half that many strokes.

The Coti and Thuri will also leave micro scratches (a product and proof of abrasive sharpening) on the blade, these can be polished out. The 16k stone will also leave micro scratches but because the agrassive cutting power of synthetics and the scientifically graded and screened grit tends to leave long sharp scratches that are all the same width and length, they give the blade a mirror look because each scratch lines perfectly up with its neighbor scratch (do an alternate angled scratch pattern and a matte look finish begins to show a bit). Where as the naturals will leave some long, some short, some wide and some shallow scratches because being a friable abrasive particle the majority of scratches are much shorter (sometimes only as long as the are wide) and softer looking as the grit breaks down. And because of this matte look any slightly longer or larger scratches in the mix when silhouetted against the matte finish background, the first scratches your eye picks up look more distinct and might even give the illusion of being larger than they are. They may not be larger scratches per se as the 16k, but because they lay isolated against the matte finish of the blade they jump out as they reflect the light.

If the edge is developed to a razor tolerance, a normal strop or palm strop will clean up the foil edge, going back and forth from stone to stone will not alter it too much or for the better, but may throw the edge out of balance as far as over hoing one side of the blade or the other.

There are always better hones out there, and if the uchigumori was a sizeable investment and it is not giving you the edge you want, you should contact the seller and see if you can get a refund or a different stone. hope this helps and I am sure some others here will clarify what I was not able to. Alx