Thread: J-Nat club

So let me ask you straight up. Are you considering these softer stones as razor stones? Against all common thought on the subject that suggestes that only the hardest stones are razor stones. Do you really find that these stones can hone a razor as sharp, or just more comfortable?

Alex

Originally Posted by alx

So let me ask you straight up. Are you considering these softer stones as razor stones? Against all common thought on the subject that suggestes that only the hardest stones are razor stones. Do you really find that these stones can hone a razor as sharp, or just more comfortable?

Alex

Hi Alex,

I would not consider these softer stones first off. They are super fine stones though and seem very dense. These took me forever to lap flat. Water just sits on top not absorbed. Need to do longer test, but after 45 minutes no absorption water drops unchanged. They do not slurry that easily either. According to Namikawa these are the best stone among all of the natural finishing polishing stones.
It cuts the steel effectively and the particle is fine (It is finer than other finishing stones.). If you make Jizuya form this stone, you can do the best JIOKOSHI which is very important in polishing Japanese swords. I need to test some more, but they do leave a very sharp yet smooth shaving edge leaving a close smooth shave.

Enjoy,
Tom

I believe that it is not always true that a harder jnat is a better razor hone than a softer one - but since hardness and fineness go hand-in-hand it is usually true. The holy grail of jnats is IMO, one that's finer than its hardness would suggest.

You can also find softer stones that work well with a clear water finish to boost the edge a little, on some softer stones it works and others it does not contribute much.

Tom, have you tried adding 20-30 light clear water strokes? I assume that you're finishing on slurry.

Cheers, Steve

Originally Posted by Steve56

I believe that it is not always true that a harder jnat is a better razor hone than a softer one - but since hardness and fineness go hand-in-hand it is usually true. The holy grail of jnats is IMO, one that's finer than its hardness would suggest.

You can also find softer stones that work well with a clear water finish to boost the edge a little, on some softer stones it works and others it does not contribute much.

Tom, have you tried adding 20-30 light clear water strokes? I assume that you're finishing on slurry.

Cheers, Steve

Hi Steve,

What I find with the harder iromono is that they don't seem as hard as the glassy hard Asagi grey stones, because the slurry has a softness to it, yet some feel just as dense. I am wondering if this is do to with the grit richness of a lot of the iromono stones along with a high level of finess. So the stones are still really hard sometimes, but they don't give that glassy feed back and feel much more alive.

Yes , I do use clear water stokes on many iromono and on my super hard ones sometimes I need to add some slurry strokes because it is so sharp and a bit harsh on my sensitive skin. I however have not had enough time to try the clear water stokes yet on these Narutaki Nakayama polishing stones. I have on some of the iro Okodu i got with the same shipment and found I like the overall feel finished with very light slurry vs just water so far. That may also depend on the razor too though. Also when I do clear water strokes I use alot of water and zero pressure like the razor floats, so it is like finishing under water. If that makes sense.

Enjoy,
Tom

Originally Posted by rideon66

Narutaki Nakayama polishing stones.

Odd name. Aren't Narutaki & Nakayama 2 different quarries ?

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Odd name. Aren't Narutaki & Nakayama 2 different quarries ?

It depends I guess if the name Narutaki is used to describe the mine Narutaki or the area Narutaki, of which Narutaki and Nakayama are mines in that area

regards

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Odd name. Aren't Narutaki & Nakayama 2 different quarries ?

Narutaki is also a type of stone used in the final stage of sword polishing and can come from different mines this particular one came from Nakayama.

Just saw Fikira's post and I would also guess that they name this final finishing stone which comes after Uchigumori for the region it comes from too, but not sure on that. I just recently found out that it can come from various mines.

Seems a generic term as well as a quarry.

Originally Posted by alx

So let me ask you straight up. Are you considering these softer stones as razor stones? Against all common thought on the subject that suggestes that only the hardest stones are razor stones. Do you really find that these stones can hone a razor as sharp, or just more comfortable?

Alex

Originally Posted by Steve56

I believe that it is not always true that a harder jnat is a better razor hone than a softer one - but since hardness and fineness go hand-in-hand it is usually true. The holy grail of jnats is IMO, one that's finer than its hardness would suggest.

You can also find softer stones that work well with a clear water finish to boost the edge a little, on some softer stones it works and others it does not contribute much.

Tom, have you tried adding 20-30 light clear water strokes? I assume that you're finishing on slurry.

Cheers, Steve

Ok Alex just wanted to give both you and Steve a little more point of reference on these Narutaki Koppa from Nakayama mountain. First according to everything I have read on Jizuya the Narutaki stone is supposed to be harder and finer than the Uchigumori in Hazuya. With that said these from Nakayama are twice the cost of the norm per kg and much harder than the Narutaki tomo I got from Steve. So the hardness can really vary with these stones and I think these may be at the higher end, but I do not have enough points of reference to say that as any absolute just my gut feeling.

Now with what Steve said before about hardness and fineness usually going hand and hand I think that is maybe more of a bound particle finishing ideal. I do hope this is true with these Narutaki stones and seems to be so far. I find with my softest iro, which I would call maybe a lv4 or 4- it is more about not allowing any pressure which would allow unseen particles to come loose dulling vs polishing like in a harder stone. It doesn't mean the stone is less fine. Now I do use this stone more for knives, but the edges can be very sharp and smooth done right. It is easier to use my other iro stones that are more in the 4.5 lv -5 +++lv for finishing though and to truly answer your question Alex yes I get edges just as sharp or sharper than ones from the hardest of stones, only more skin friendly for that level of keeness. I was actually very impressed at the level the Okudo iromono kan stone I posted a few pages back achieved. I think it maybe one of my finest stones. I haven't quite decided on the level of hardness to that stone, but I would say it is in the lv5 up range.

With all that said I am not as much of a fan of scary sharp bite you if your game isn't on type of edges. I love a smooth forgiving edge that will cut you if you are dumb and just in a hurry, but leave you bbs with one pass and still not irritate with an ATG pass to finish.

Enjoy,
Tom

My Narutaki koppa are one step away from dried mud ie very soft. Must be from Narutaki Quarry rather than Nakayama. Really nice for darkening the Ji on modern swords btw.