Thread: To Hone or Pay Someone Else to Hone

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

A naniwa, or any 12k, is fine for touching up or finishing an already sharp razor. If you want something to sharpen/finish a norton 4000/8000 combo stone is more suited to the task. The 12k is icing on the cake.

Or he could just buy all hones ever made, just like you!

Originally Posted by Blix

Or he could just buy all hones ever made, just like you!

Tried to stimulate the economy as much as I could but it didn't work. I have tried many of them but sold most and now just stick with the chosera 1k for bevels, the norton 4/8 and usually an escher y/g. Occasionally a coticule or my one nakayama asagi if I'm in the mood for one of those.

I'm about to buy the 4000/8000 but one last question. On the SRD description, it mentions that "A Norton 8000 grit stone can actually be used to refresh a razor in many situations followed by either a .5 diamond spray on felt or chromium oxide spray on felt. Chromium oxide paste on linen or poly webbing will work after the 8000 Norton as well." Per my initial post, all I'm looking for is something to get my somewhat dull razor in great shaving condition, not start a sharpening business. Given I have no idea what a diamond/oxide spray is, do I need to sort/buy these things too??

Glad to hear everyone's trying to stimulate the economy. Thanks to SRP looks like I'll be doing my part too!

The norton 4000/8000 is dependable, and imo you don't really need anything higher.
Higher is the cherry on the cake, but not more. I shaved quite some time off the 8000.

As long as your razor is in good condition, a pasted paddle would suffice. A colleague of mine has a very heavy beard (the kind that produces stubble after half a day). I sold him a plain hollow ground 3 years ago, and advised him to buy a pasted paddle from Tony Miller; the kind with 3 sides paste and 1 side plain leather.

He has to touch up his razor on a weekly basis, due to his coarse beard. His razor has never needed honing. they key is to take good care of it, and not let it get too dull. If, as you say, you just want to maintain a razor, a pasted paddle is all you will ever need.

Originally Posted by Straightrazzin

Was just checking out some other posts and it sounds like someone else (no surprise) is having the same issue as me. Another member recommended a 12k grit Naniwa Super Stone. What do you think about this is my one and only, get my razor sharp hone? Seems pretty different from a 4/8k hone. Also, can anyone recommend a quality US straightrazor. Already have a Dovo so looking for something a little different, assuming they're any good!

Most vintage US straight razors will be fine. Check the razor clubs to see what is in use by SRP members. The options for hones above are all good ones. The major question is selecting a hone is "What kind of honing do you want to do?". If you are just maintaining an edge that is not damaged in any way a Barber's hone or 12k Naniwa would be fine as would a pasted strop of some sort. Once you get into more than just refining an edge you get to the 4/8k hones like the Norton combo. Here is a point that will help. The finer the hone grit (12k is finer than 8k and 8k is finer than 4k) the smoother the edge will shave and the slower the hone will remove metal. Taking a dull razor or one with a rolled edge to and 8k hone will take a lot of time to get an edge. Using a 12k hone on the same damaged razor will take longer than you would accept and you will give up. The best suggestion I can offer is to send out the razor that has the rolled edge for repair and a fresh edge, learn not to damage your razor and pick up a Barber's hone of finisher of your choice. Once you notice the razor getting dull take it to the finisher before it goes too far. A Barber's hone may give you a bit more time before you need to hone the razor. If you are going to get into repairing the edge you should get more razors to practice with and a full set of hones from 1k to ~12k. If you try to sneak into honing razors by purchasing more or less than you need in grit sizes you will not be happy with the results as far as shave smoothness or time to hone is concerned. There is no way around that. Most professional razor honing is done on hones finer than 8k and may even have pasted strops mixed in. You will not get that result with an 8k hone. A 12k may get you closer to that finished edge but to repair a razor with that hone, forget it. I feel the best way to get into honing your own razors is, as noted above, to have more than one razor, start by just maintaining your edges with a fine hone. If you need to fix an edge send it out. If you want to learn how to repair edges, buy a full set of hones and another razor to learn on, preferably a good quality razor for a low price. Good luck.

Originally Posted by Straightrazzin

About 4 months ago I decided to give straight shaving another go. I bought a shave ready razor a couple years back without realizing that it took both work and time to master, so I gave up on the thing. Anyhow, I'm back at it and am really enjoying it. Before getting back into it, I sent my razor out for a professional sharpen but after using it 4/5 times a week, and discovering I've been rolling the blade the wrong way on my strop, I'm feeling due for another sharpen (I'm feeling more of a pulling sensation while shaving). Given last time I spent about $40 all in to get a professional sharpen, I was hoping to get some advice on what I need to bring my razor back to life. I've been reading different posts but for someone with 1 razor who doesn't want to spend thousands on equipment, is there 1 particular hone anyone can recommend to fulfill my goal of getting my razor very sharp? Also, please let me know if you think I NEED anything else or will 1 paddle strop and 1 hone get me 99% of the way there? Appreciate the help!

There are multiple issues here. One is cost
and the other involves the learning curve.

Sending a razor out a couple times is a good investment
because it teaches you what a correctly sharpened
edge is.

Note well: you need less equipment to maintain
a razor that has been correctly sharpened.

I am a big fan of a good strop. Paddle strop or hanging
strop it does not matter. The SRD Lynn Abrams Modular Paddle
strop may be the winner because it is easy to replace the
surfaces and you can have a lot of different surfaces.
I also think that a paddle is less likely to roll the edge
in the hand of a beginner (less than two years -- stropping time).
Most SRD hanging strops can have the leather or canvas replaced
for modest cost so they are also a good value. Good canvas
or hard felt are a necessary part of the strop process.

Pasted strops are overused by many of us myself included.
A strop lightly pasted with sub micron abrasive is
gentle enough that it can be used a lot with no harm
to the razor. Caution with coarser than 1 micron paste.
A pasted strop helps a lot after honing a razor. IMO, Nothing
else puts a better final finish on an edge after honing.

That takes us to hones... Honing razors today has gotten
very possible. Modern hones like Shapton, Norton or Naniwa
products make the job easy and selection possible.

Given that the razor was shave ready recently all it needs is
a refresh. For that task I often reach for a 10k or 12k hone.
It does not take much effort.

I lap the surface of the hone lightly with a DMT leave the slurry on
the hone and each ten strokes dilute it a bit. The last
ten strokes of about 30 I use clear water... Wipe, rinse, strop
and shave test...

Once in a while more is needed and I grab a coarser hone.
I have a venerable Norton 4k/8k combo -- that is +10 years
old and there is a reason it is still called a work horse by many
of us.

There is a Naniwa Value Pack on one vendors site
with 5000, 8000 & 12000 grit stones that covers all the
grits a shaver will ever need. There is no need to get all the set
at once. As good a hone as the Naniwa 12k is the 5k and
8k may gather a lot of dust between uses...

You will need a DMT to keep them lapped flat.

On lapping flat: Over time hones will dish
and when the curve of one hone is different
from another hone they will not work well together.
By keeping hones flat transitions from grit to
grit to grit works best. By getting in a habit of lapping
a little at a time (think half the thickness of a sheet of paper)
each time you use a hone the will stay flat and
give you a light slurry to start with. The slurry can
help bridge largish grit gaps so do not blindly wash it
down the drain.

A second razor is a good thing. It can be a straight, a double
edge razor or even a tossable. Should you find the razor
too dull to shave with after "tinkering" you want a backup.
Some days I recommend the yellow handle BiC razors for
sensitive skin as a backup. They are inexpensive and sharp
enough to shave yet dull enough that you can do better honing and
stropping your own straight after some practice. They also
have a single edge so razor bumps are less of a problem.

It sounds like your present razor is working but is not up to where it was due to possibly having rolled the edge. That won't happen again since you know what you did to roll the edge and will avoid doing it in the future. My suggestion would be to give Larry at whippeddog.com a call and order a shave ready razor from him along with his balsa strop with CROX and FEOX. When the package arrives you wil have a new to you experienced razor that is shave ready. Then you can use the balsa strop on your prexent razor to see if you can get it back to shave ready with just a little work. If it doesn't work given the present state of the blade on that razor, you will be using it to help refresh the blades on your razors in the future. Then you can continue to look at finishing hones like the DMT8EE, a Naniwa 12K, or a C12. The DMT8EE will not need to be lapped whereas either the Naniwa or the C12 will need lapping. A DMT8c will lap either of them. The reason I added the C12 to this conversation is that Woodcraft has them on sale now for $20.

My humble opinion:
A Norton 4000/8000
A Shapton 16000
A DMT 325 to lap the above stones.
A strop.
2- Vintage razors ordered from the classified section on this forum.
Spend some time practicing & reading the archives in regard to the above equipment.

You are then set for the rest of your shaving career.
...until R.A.D. hits you!!

I guess it really depends on how you're going to approach the hobby?

If you're going to get a load of blades, get into restoration, offer to hone for others perhaps and really get into honing as a hobby then it's worth getting some good stones.

If you're only going to own a few blades and just touch them up now and then you'll be fine with a barber hone and pasted strop. Maybe a Norton 4/8 if you really feel the need.

One thing not mentioned is the difference in steel with respect to modern razors, ie Dovo, etc, and vintage razors like Wade & Butcher, to pick one. My limited experience points to selecting hones to suit the razor in question. My Norton 4K/8K for most Solingen razors and a coticule/BBW for softer Sheffield steel.

So, in the interest of saving a few dollars, and who doesn't want to, I'd stick with a Solingen razor for your next purchase. The American made razors like Genco, Shumate, Kinfolks, etc have steel similar in hardness to Solingen blades and would also be a good choice.

I knew after my first shave, I was going to really love shaving with a straight. So, honing was necessary, since I couldn't see affording to pay someone to hone the (CLASSIFIED INFORMATION) razors I have now and continue to acquire.