Thread: A magnified comparison of many honing results

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Ummmm

Ok a few things here

1. Did you ask Tim to use his Pics??? (That I am asking as an SRP Mod)
2. The scratch pattern means nothing to the shaving comfort
3. Note the Pasted strop pics
4. The sides of the bevel are only a very small part of the equation
5. Once you strop on linen and leather all this changes
6. All these pics are great, but they are not acurate portrayals of what you should expect on your face..

Be very very careful when you try to make correlations with microscopic pics of the bevel, and how good a stone is for actual shaving


Think of this about the same way you look at the pretty radar pics on the evening weather, they showing something , but only walking outside will tell you what is really going on

Boo!! Can we give a thumbs-down to comments??

The guy is only expressing an observation. Never did he state that his observation is a direct correlation with quality of shave/hone. Let the man share his observation.

Originally Posted by Str8RazorSerg

Boo!! Can we give a thumbs-down to comments??

The guy is only expressing an observation. Never did he state that his observation is a direct correlation with quality of shave/hone. Let the man share his observation.

The problem with many newbies is that they see some pictures of flawless looking bevels and thing this is the holly grail of honing a razor.
No it is not, because if you take pics at different angles to the bevel you will see different scratch pattern on every one of them. I am not saying the pics were intentionally taken this way to mislead people, but there is more than one side to the coin.
I understand the fascination with the shown results on those pics, but sometimes post like that just reinforce the false notion that the bevel has to be flawless after it comes off the stones. That is impossible to achieve in reasonable amount of time, and also not what makes the shaves great.

One thing that I always like to see with pictures is the other side of the bevel..........

Agree that the lighting and angle can change a lot of the perception.

Follow up comments regarding any particular pics of the bevel from a particular stone and their correlation to shaving with that bevel would be nice. But then you have to take into account all the individual variabilities and preferences.

To me, always worth the exercise for that individual.

Have fun.

I often use a 10x and 20x loupe to check the bevel during honing. But can never really see the edge which when perfect disappears from view.

My college science classes help me to appreciate that light microscope images like these are tricky to obtain. These are very nice depictions of the bevel and edge, albeit from one side. An electron microscope is even better. The Complete Guide to Sharpening by Leonard Lee confirms results similar to these optical images. The electron microscope revealed that the 8000 grit followed by CrO was near perfect on chisels. Yes, the woodworking guys are almost obsessed with sharpness as we SR guys.

These and other images confirm that there is a difference in the results expected from various stones. However, I bet in experienced hands most can yield good shaving results. I for one welcome more objective evaluation of blade sharpness. Thanks for sharing Lynn.

Originally Posted by Gammaray

I often use a 10x and 20x loupe to check the bevel during honing. But can never really see the edge which when perfect disappears from view.

My college science classes help me to appreciate that light microscope images like these are tricky to obtain. These are very nice depictions of the bevel and edge, albeit from one side. An electron microscope is even better. The Complete Guide to Sharpening by Leonard Lee confirms results similar to these optical images. The electron microscope revealed that the 8000 grit followed by CrO was near perfect on chisels. Yes, the woodworking guys are almost obsessed with sharpness as we SR guys.

These and other images confirm that there is a difference in the results expected from various stones. However, I bet in experienced hands most can yield good shaving results. I for one welcome more objective evaluation of blade sharpness. Thanks for sharing Lynn.

Im fairly new to straight razors honing but experienced in the woodworking sharpening for many years,you can put a mirror finish on a chisel even a dollar store chisel but it wont last long, the same on a Witherby will last, but they will look the same.
So once again the pic are cool but to many variable, the more and more im into honing the only way is to test shave.

Once again, I'm late to the party... Please don't make more out of these photos than what they are:

This is not meant to be a definitive study of the honing qualities of various stones. Rather, it is just meant to give me a basic idea of what's going on.

I originally posted them because I thought they might be useful to someone else. I've learned a lot about microscopes and edges since then. Mostly, that you need at least 1000x to really see what is going on, in terms of whether the edge will be a good shaver. That is getting in to electron microscope territory. Especially if you want good photos.

Lynn is right, the best and easiest way to decide what you like is to shave with it (my paraphrase).

Someone, with good technique, can make a fantastic shaver with an 8000 grit hone. Nerds, like me, like to tinker...

Tim Z.

Fortunately, posting thes pics did as I intended. They sparked healthy debate. I may be a new guy but I do research and I don't take things for granted. The pictures were enough to help me decide to get even more information. I mentioned this same quote when I posted.

This is not meant to be a definitive study of the honing qualities of various stones. Rather, it is just meant to give me a basic idea of what's going on.

Tim my apologies I did not get your permission before posting them.
I still enjoyed them Thank You. :-)

Originally Posted by gssixgun

2. The scratch pattern means nothing to the shaving comfort
4. The sides of the bevel are only a very small part of the equation
5. Once you strop on linen and leather all this changes

I agree completely with what Gary says in 2,4 and 5.

My comments were directed to the edge on the C12k and the Cro2.

Originally Posted by Lynn

One thing that I always like to see with pictures is the other side of the bevel..........

Agree that the lighting and angle can change a lot of the perception.

Follow up comments regarding any particular pics of the bevel from a particular stone and their correlation to shaving with that bevel would be nice. But then you have to take into account all the individual variabilities and preferences.

To me, always worth the exercise for that individual.

Have fun.

And by way of kissing up, I agree with Lynn also.

Above all, as has been pointed out by so many others in the past. It's your personal experience with the shave after honing and stropping.

I have a tough face and almost never get a rash or tenderness, but I am a baby if I feel the blade pulling on the hairs.

I am magnification man. I post this link in all microscope threads!

http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...ent-light.html

Originally Posted by Str8RazorSerg

Boo!! Can we give a thumbs-down to comments??

The guy is only expressing an observation. Never did he state that his observation is a direct correlation with quality of shave/hone. Let the man share his observation.

I think you just did,,, Which by the way is excatly what I did, but somehow you didn't like my observation just like I didn't agree with the OP's observation...
Mostly because it isn't his work so he has no basis to compare these edges, which makes them just pretty pics that mean nothing to honing...
But when you toss the pics up, you get responses like in post #7 from another newer guy who just assumed he needs to go back to the hones and try for a mirrored bevel... Which won't make a bit of difference to how the razor shaves...
Then you get respones like mine and Mainaman trying to clarify the situation which you didn't like ...