Thread: Are there stones that are higher grit than 12K?

I wouldn't buy the 16k glasstone to get an improvement on the 12k nani superstone.

There are only two stones that I'm aware of that have finer grit than a 12k nani (guessing at what the 12k nani's grit is, i've not seen it published anywhere).

The sigma power 13k, which has grit around 0.73 micron or something
and the shapton 30k stones, which are in the neighborhood of 0.5 micron

That shapton 15k pro is 0.98 micron and the glasstone is 0.92 micron IIRC. You can't always do an apples to apples comparson with particle size, but I think in these types of stones (as opposed to stones that have less aggressive grit that will dull or break down), it's pretty fair.

Thank You Sir!

Some of the guys on this forum are conducting a shave ready experiment with the Norton 4/8k followed by plain stropping. What they are discovering so far is that this can be a great shaver finished with just the 8k. I also have a Naniwa 12k but I think you are better off with pastes and sprays beyond this level either with strops or balsa. You can buy plenty of diamond pastes, CrO, balsa and multiple strops for the cost of one stone above the 12k range and the grit size can go much lower than 30k with better edge coverage than a solid stone. Good luck.

In addition to the already mentioned high-grit synthetics, there is also the Suehiro Gokumyo 15K and 20K.
I have them both and find them to be exceptional finishers

Originally Posted by Gammaray

Some of the guys on this forum are conducting a shave ready experiment with the Norton 4/8k followed by plain stropping. What they are discovering so far is that this can be a great shaver finished with just the 8k. I also have a Naniwa 12k but I think you are better off with pastes and sprays beyond this level either with strops or balsa. You can buy plenty of diamond pastes, CrO, balsa and multiple strops for the cost of one stone above the 12k range and the grit size can go much lower than 30k with better edge coverage than a solid stone. Good luck.

I would agree with this. I have spent thousands of dollars on stones, but after trying the 30k glasstone that someone else had, I figured I'd rather spend money on leather, powders, pastes or natural stones if I want that level of fineness.

The SP 13K is the finest stone I have, and it's nice to have that stuff, but I have gotten a nice shave right off of an 8x2 translucent arkansas stone that cost $35 from the sierra trading post. I didn't even play with it and thicken the oil. It wasn't as sharp as my high $$ stones, but it was sharp enough and it was comfortable, and with a thicker oil (i used WD 40), i could've easily gotten it to pretend to be finer than I used it on shaving.

I'm pretty sure that all of the superfine doddling that everyone does (and I'm included in that from time to time) is necessary for satisfaction of curiosity, but not remotely necessary for a nice comfortable daily shave from a straight razor, or even quick indefinite maintenance (which a plain old cheap arkansas stone is plenty capable of, as are lots of other inexpensive methods).

many ways to skin the cat, anyone not wanting to spend money can easily work around spending lots of it on stones and maintenance.

There's 8-9 ounce vegetable tanned cowhide on ebay quite often for $12 a square foot, and horse butt for that often, too. Gobs of 0.5 micron chromium oxide powder is about $12 or something.

Pushing the envelope with high cost stuff (which I have done from time to time), I think, is for the satisfaction of the shaver, but not necessarily the shave, if you know what I mean.

I'm a little lost on this post.

The translucent is one of the more difficult stones to get a decent shave off of and even more difficult to consistently get a good shave off of.

I personally believe that most people are looking for the ultimate edge and the best shave for themselves.

As always there is a lot of personal preference involved in most aspects of this art and the opportunity to always learn something new.

Have fun.

Originally Posted by DaveW

I would agree with this. I have spent thousands of dollars on stones, but after trying the 30k glasstone that someone else had, I figured I'd rather spend money on leather, powders, pastes or natural stones if I want that level of fineness.

The SP 13K is the finest stone I have, and it's nice to have that stuff, but I have gotten a nice shave right off of an 8x2 translucent arkansas stone that cost $35 from the sierra trading post. I didn't even play with it and thicken the oil. It wasn't as sharp as my high $$ stones, but it was sharp enough and it was comfortable, and with a thicker oil (i used WD 40), i could've easily gotten it to pretend to be finer than I used it on shaving.

I'm pretty sure that all of the superfine doddling that everyone does (and I'm included in that from time to time) is necessary for satisfaction of curiosity, but not remotely necessary for a nice comfortable daily shave from a straight razor, or even quick indefinite maintenance (which a plain old cheap arkansas stone is plenty capable of, as are lots of other inexpensive methods).

many ways to skin the cat, anyone not wanting to spend money can easily work around spending lots of it on stones and maintenance.

There's 8-9 ounce vegetable tanned cowhide on ebay quite often for $12 a square foot, and horse butt for that often, too. Gobs of 0.5 micron chromium oxide powder is about $12 or something.

Pushing the envelope with high cost stuff (which I have done from time to time), I think, is for the satisfaction of the shaver, but not necessarily the shave, if you know what I mean.

I guess it depends on the translucent.

I had the norton translucent, which doesn't seem like a natural stone (it seems like natural stuff pressed together). I wouldn't like it on razors, i think. The stone I used is a natural stone that I do still have, and a good bit finer (maybe half as fast and half as coarse as the norton translucent), and it has been used a lot on woodworking tools without refreshing its face, so it's very settled. It makes a pretty nice edge that I would put on par with any 8k waterstone (the edge is different than a waterstone, of course).

I guess there are probably two groups of people (or three, or four, maybe) -
1) people who are daily shavers who hone their own razors and who want something quick and comfortable - ultimate sharpness may not be that important. I'd assume this type would like to keep a hone in the bathroom where powders and pastes might cause a problem (with the wife, obviously not a practical problem) - I'm in this group. 90% of my dawdling around with stones has been for woodworking, and not razors.

2) People who hone their own razor and who are chasing the ultimate edge, be they daily shavers or otherwise. They would be unhappy with an edge off a translucent stone, even a fine one like I have, and they would probably consider an edge off of 0.5 chromium oxide or a specific razor grade natural stone (thuringian or ozuku or something) as the minimum acceptable stopping point.

3) people who send their razor out for honing - (though I've never done that, I'll speculate...) who should accept only a very sharp edge back from a honemeister, and one that's in good geometric condition to be able to stretch the lifetime of the edge before it goes back to the honemeister


I'm going to assume that in the days of people shaving by necessity (100+ years ago) with a straight razor, there were a lot more people in category 1 than there are now, though category 3 would've been the easily accessible barber. Not to mention that few people had constant people-facing jobs where their appearance mattered that much, and most people probably didn't shave daily, anyway.

But, anyway, another woodworker told me they got a comfortable edge off of a natural translucent stone, and I was surprised, so I tried it and ...well, I was surprised, too. I got a comfortable edge that had decent shaving sharpness and uniformly passed the HHT without any ugliness on the edge under a loupe.

I did have to spend more time on the bare leather strop, though, whereas my daily regimen of using a well settled antique japanese barber hone, I could use the razor comfortably off the stone without any strop at all, and i rarely use more than 20 laps on a small paddle strop.

I'm new to socially talking about straight razor shaving, but I'm assuming that there are a lot of people out there who once they master honing technique, they get into a routine that's quick and easy and comfortable, and get a bit away from ultimate sharpness and powders and such.

After I got into the daily routine of straight razoring, I brought it up on a woodworking forum, and I was surprised to find that there are a lot of other daily shavers, some of them having shaved with a straight razor during the "dark period" for the last 40 years, and never using anything but arkansas stones and a bare horse butt strop. Those using the arkansas stones are very experienced with squeezing performance out of them, though, from having used them for decades woodworking - being very protective about their "settled in" state, which is removed as soon as you lap the surface of them.

I can get consistantly great edges off of my surgical black Arkie, mainly because that was all I had to hone on for many years.They can be very tricky and don't give soft steels such as Sheffield steel that great an edge. Where they really shine is with much harder steels.

You can get a good shave off a coticule, Thuringian or barber hone. Many barbers have done just that for a living. I can get a razor popping hairs off a coticule and a Thuringian. I never tried a synthetic barber hone. But I too have experimented with many other and fancier hones. My Nakayama is seeing less use than it used to do. All those hones have been fun though.

It all boils down to the question: do you want to have a good shave with or without fooling around with fancy hones?

For me, there are 2 categories of good shave: one is if I'm shaving every other day (Norton, coticule both work great there--pretty much BBS all over & no irritation) & the other is if I have to shave every day for some reason. I really do need a very sharp edge to shave every single day, so for me, it would be more fancy hones vs. diamond spray on felt for example, if we're talking about nice-to-have vs. need-to-have. I have a very tough, black beard w/ sensitive, pale skin that is very prone to ingrowns & really do benefit enormously from a very sharp edge if I want to shave close, daily. I would have an unacceptable shadow (by professional standards) if I didn't shave close, daily.

Just food for thought.