Thread: PHI/C12k technical question...

I was under the impression that the PHIG's were of the same type of stone as a Thuringen/Escher

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I was under the impression that the PHIG's were of the same type of stone as a Thuringen/Escher

Does the slurry break down like the Escher??

Yeah, I've seen those video's before, and have 2 of them at home that I use from time to time, but what I was asking was if anyone (Glen, etc) ever observed if the slurry particles got finer the more you hone, or if they require diluting. In his kamisori video, Glen doesn't dilute on his Jnat because it's pretty accepted that the slurry breaks down gradually giving a finer and finer honing surface as you go.

I have never used an Escher/Thur. either.

See this is where it gets complicated...

As far as I know (AFAIK) only the Japanese Water Stones of a certain type actually have the correct composition to break down, then IMHO it gets a bit more complicated after that.. I don't think that the way we hone western razors is as conducive to creating that friablity of the slurry. That back and forth routine used on Kamisori (Japanese Honing) seems to work the slurry much better for this..
I believe that if you are going to use the "powdered slurry technique" on Western razor honing you need to leave that slurry to dry on the stone...

AFAIK only these J-nats have this ability, this is also where the claim of 20k+ grit ratings come from some claim as high as 50k, I have mighty doubts there too..

Somebody is going to have to do the microscope works to see if this happens with other stones, I have seen some pics that do suggest that this friability does exist in other stones (Escher's and Coticules) but I have not seen "Proof"
Also working the slurries on many of these hones like in that Vid I have yet to attain a better edge off the slurry then off a clear water stone... Only my Nakayama works that way...

That would be a quick and dirty test for your stone though, let the slurry go to "damp" and slowly finish the edge look for more or less scratches on the edge than clear water finish.. I suggest using the Japanese honing style to break it down better though, I haven't tried that myself...

On the PHIG's I had, I found water alone gave bigger scratches but I don't know if they were wider or deeper.
Slurry seemed to give a finer finish but again I also have no proof.

Sometimes time will aid friability. Tho with the PHIG you may need a lot of it.
I know that to get some Jnat slurries finer you can skip a stone eg your 8k etc & just work the natural & slurry till you get it to its finest.
A variation on the one stone honing a couple of clever fellows did

Originally Posted by onimaru55

On the PHIG's I had, I found water alone gave bigger scratches but I don't know if they were wider or deeper. Slurry seemed to give a finer finish but again I also have no proof.

And this is one of the reasons PHIG's are discussed so much. Mine is the complete opposite. It leaves larger scratches when finishing with slurry and an almost mirror finish on water only. There is such a wide variance in these stones that it is hard to give very accurate advice on them.