Thread: "draw" on natural hones

What causes some naturals to feel smooth like glass on water and others to have more feel during the stroke? Is it the hardness of the stone? And what does that say about the speed and fineness of the hone? Would love to know more. I'm fascinated by the natural hones

----michael

I'd imagine the only thing that effects the feel of the razor on a hone is the topology of the hone surface. This in turn is dictated by the make up of the stone itself, and what you lapped it with. The hardness of the stone is related to its make up (abrasive particles, suspension media) which would then have some impact on the topology of the honing surface, I think.

I cannot speak for all natural hones, but there is a general rule with Japanese naturals (cannot see why this would not also apply to other natural stones, however) that the harder and finer the stone, the slower the cut. When looking for a Jnat finisher, most will end up with a very hard stone of a high grit that tends to take a few laps to achieve its goal. However, hard and fine do not necessarily have to equal "slow cutter" - hard, fine, and (relatively speaking) fast stones are the ones that sell for the big bucks (in Jnat terms. Some UK and European natural hones seem to be prized for the fact that they are slow cutters of moderate grit, so there is also obviously a cultural element involved also)!

James.

I'd like to ressurect this thread because this too interests me. I've heard that some Jnats feel like you're honing on glass, like the stone is having no effect whatsoever. I recently purchased a jnat that feels very fine and smooth, it takes a while to raise a faint slurry on a slurry stone cut from itself, and it improves the edge i get off a coticule. But here's the funny thing, that is a new feeling to me- it feels literally like im honing on a piece of buttery velvet. There is so much draw its incredible-even when im honing on plain water. I dont really feel the draw when honing a wedge so much, but on a full hollow like a dovo its incredible. I have a creamy dressante coticule that feels similar, though its not as fine as the jnat. Ive not felt this drag when honing on a kitayama synthetic, or a 4k norton (my reference point). Anybody have any idea about the difference between glassy feeling hones and jnats?

For Jnats, finer stones feel more like glass, that does not mean more buttery feeling stone is not fine enough to shave with.
One more thing to look for when determining fineness is to listen to the stone, the really fine ones are quiet, and less fine ones one will be able to hear while honing.

Originally Posted by mainaman

For Jnats, finer stones feel more like glass, that does not mean more buttery feeling stone is not fine enough to shave with.
One more thing to look for when determining fineness is to listen to the stone, the really fine ones are quiet, and less fine ones one will be able to hear while honing.

Alex described my stone as "ultra fine" in his description of it on his website, and a level 5- in all his determining categories, (HHT level 4 he says, I think) but my stone is silent and buttery, even with a full hollow. One of my coticules is loud, the other is quiter, but still vocal. It's possible my hearing is not as sensitive to the jnat
s sound, though, since I don't have much experience with naturals. I'd love to find out how fine my jnat is, but I suppose that really doesn't matter, since it does what I want it to do. I'm thinking the very fine jnats are probably just not for me, because I'm not a fan of that "honing on glass" feeling on a hone, I love that feedback! I wouldn't know when the razor's ready on a glassy feeling hone. Maybe one of those will be in my future down the road, when I'm keener to the feeling/sounds of the finer hones...

thanks for the tip!

Originally Posted by woodsmandave

My stone is silent and buttery, even with a full hollow. A paradox?

I said that a buttery feeling stone can be very fine too, where is the paradox here?

I think I edited that part out as you were responding to it. No paradox, it just took me a second read to get what you were saying. Dyslexia (on my end)