Thread: interesting coti/thuri statement

I often hear about you fine gentlemen going from coti to thuri as a finisher, and was wandering around the web and came across this (apologies if this has been discussed before):

Can I use it as a final hone after using the Belgian garnet stone?
We are often asked this question. If you have used a high quality natural Belgian stone, the Escher/Thuringian stone is NOT recommended as a final hone, because the edge profiles created by these stones are different and not complementary. A high quality Belgian stone (such as the ones we sell) produces an edge without burrs, therefore that edge is already drawn toward attaining an ideal finish, so you wouldn't gain any advantage by using the Escher.
However, if you happen to own a low-quality Belgian stone (more aptly: a stone containing fewer garnets of large size, therefore cutting a coarser edge profile), there can be some improvement with the use of the Escher.
The Escher water hone is completely free of pyrites, which could otherwise hamper the honing effect.
(Original Escher Stone - Sharpening Stone from Germany)

It wouldn't be the first time a seller of a product was a little off on something, but I'm curious as to thoughts from y'all as it sounds like it could be a reasonable statement? And if it is true, would that mean you go to the thuri straight off the 8k? Not sure I've heard that approach often...

Being that these thuri's and "Escher's" are the newer ones and not vintage, the statement is probably right. The newer ones are not always of the same quality and don't always have the same finishing abilities as their vintage counterparts. Coticule on the other hand are all out of the same place and vary little between the old and new ones.

I ordered a new thuri to try out. Now new only means newly cut. Its a rock so there all old. The Thuri i have used would be awesome to finish on. Even after a Coti. Many prople here mix and match their stones. I know someone who uses a shapton then goes to a coti then on to his Jnat for final finish. So im unless the thuri is course. which i doubt it is you will see a diff. Its posable this guy like and prefers a coti edge and is biased twords a coti. JMMO

i have many coticules and i have tryed many eschers after coticule and they do both give me similar edges. i like both , thats why i ended up selling my eschers and just sticking with the coticule . i hear some people do get a better edge with there coti escher progression. you have to try and find out for self. there both natural stones and they both put a nice skin freindly tamed edge on a razor providing you have a good edge coming of the 8k level.

one natural stone i can onestly say did make a differance was the ozuku assagi japanees stone they reealy are super fine stones that leave a nice sharp fluffy edge that is very good. i was very impresed with them i got amazing results . I no guys that don't get on with nats . My advice is don't buy a nother natural to improve your coticule. lear to get the max from your coticule and you should be sastisfied. tbo i found simple cronium oxide after any hones makes the world of differance and it cost peanuts on a bit of balsa..

Originally Posted by Theseus

Coticules on the other hand are all out of the same place and vary little between the old and new ones.

I'd be in agreement with your statement save for the quoted in so far as the differences between vintage and 'new' Thuringians.

Coticules are the most versatile natural I have encountered and vary greatly in hardness, appearance, and both abrasive and polishing quality, between samples, vintage often being regarded as superior again like Thuringians with certain branded samples such as 'Deep Rock' being highly desirable.

Although the answer provided in the reasoning as to your agreement with the statement about 'new' Thuringians not being able to improve on a coticules edge is correct, I contest the seller's theory regarding the differing profiles and edges being created without burrs precluding an advantage from an Escher being obtained thereon. This is completely wrong in my opinion and irrelevant insofar as polish is concerned. A higher polish is a higher polish. A finer stone improves the polish of an edge imparted by a coarser stone, whether the preceding hone is natural or artificial and regardless of the subsequent stone being natural or artificial.

this may not make sense to anybody, and im only playing devils advocate here, but what is smoother, a low frequency sine wave, or a high frequency square wave? does that make sence to anybody? i still think a good escher improves a coticule edge, but if both are done right its a bit of apples and oranges.

My opinion is this. i have had 3 eschers and i sold them all.i did'nt use them as much as i should most likely. i've not got the experiance that sham as with the escher. i have had razors finished and honed by members finished on escher and coticules. they both shaved nice , very similar and nothing in it, this my experiance . I love the scher but in the end i just rather get my 500 $ back and stick with say my coticule , so thats why i sold them on. i've tryed them and i decided thats how i felt. maybe escher does improve the edge over coticule in some cases i felt the escher edge was nicer and in others i felt it was more crisp and not as buttery as my favourite coticules. Now the j nat surpassed both and was way better edge than i got of the escher. that was my experiance and i no others have gotten better results with j nats . i realy do think they are good hones if you no how to use them. Like i said cronium oxide is simple and it can make a real differance i actauly like the finish of cronium oxide . my simple routine would be coticule crox its just so reliable .