Thread: Shapton in Japan?

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I've had a set of the shap pros from 1k through 30k and the naniwa supers from 1k through 12k. They are both real good but TBH I liked the naniwa better for the feel and general honing characteristics. Just personal preference and I wouldn't feel bad if all I had was one set or the other.

I agree on razors, the SS have a lighter feel. For woodworking where the stones may be subject to a lot more work on similar hardness stuff, I like the shaptons better, though. They wear much better/slower (stay flatter) and are less prone to having the surface gouged accidentally. They are both good stones, though.

Originally Posted by JimR

I personally don't think they're bad stones, either.

It's a crowded market over there for stones. I'd imagine it's hard to get market penetration as a new brand, unlike over here where market penetration to a serious level occurs with one magazine article that gushes over the virtues of the new latest and greatest.

There are only so many ways you can package alumina abrasives and silicon carbide abrasives and try to claim that they do this or that 10x better than someone else's.

I'm intrigued by the house brand stones, now. Fujibato sells a 6k stone that feels as good to me as my choseras, and he sells it on ebay over here for $39. I wish he had a 10-12k grit version of the same. It is as good as any stone that i have used, and the feel is great. We just don't have the respect for traditional arts over here that you have in japan, so the market that probably drives a lot of stone purchases (knife sharpening) is left to enthusiasts over here. You're likely to find a used-up steel in someone's knife drawer, and maybe an aluminum oxide stone that will murder an edge. Otherwise, people will use various devices that promise a razor sharp edge for $10 and with no obligation to learn a skill, and that's about where it ends.

When I sharpen knives over here with a 1k diamond stone (my wife is terrified of anything sharper, my knives are finished on finer stones, but my wife won't use them and her friends certainly won't go near them), anyone who comes over always manages to cut their fingers. On a 1k stone finished knife! I should keep barbicide in the kitchen to soak the knives after they use them, they are so inept with appropriately sharp knives. That's what people are used to here.

The couple of friends of ours who are cooking enthusiasts still send their knives out to get sharpened. It baffles me.

Just IMHO, not being a woodworker ..... we use these stones, Shaptons, Nortons, Naniwas and what have you, to sharpen straight razors, but the manufacturers designed them to sharpen tools. It is all steel and I guess whether it is a plane iron or a straight razor makes little difference to the stone, save that one implement causes more wear to the stone than the other. I'm just wondering how much difference the abrasive mix makes in our pursuit ?

For example, when the glass stones were introduced they were touted as being better than the pros with a new formula used in their manufacture. Wasn't too long before yet another series of glass stones were introduced that were earmarked towards a particular alloy of tool steel. Either white or blue steel IIRC. Anyhow, we use them for our straights and any of them seem to get the job done. My guess is, regardless of cost to the end user, there isn't a dimes worth of difference between the fore mentioned stones when it comes to honing a razor. Just the personal preference of the practitioner when it comes to feel and feedback.

I don't know if the different glasstones were intended for tool folks or knife folks, I guess knife folks. I can't tell much difference in any of them, even on stones.

I believe the glasstones are a bit softer in their binder, and maybe a little bit more pleasant to use than the pros, but anyone in the world who could sharpen a razor on a glasstone will get just as good of a result on a pro stone.

The difference in the stones is more pronounced in tools, and based on their hardness. All but the softest stones (like the suehiro rika, etc) will run clear with a razor if you are gentle on the surface. That has its benefits. However, stones that will easily stay clear with a razor will run a slurry very easily with tools because of the pressure difference, unless they are very hard like a shapton.

The sigma pro 13k, as an example, will not stay clear for me using tools, but I can keep it nearly completely clear with a razor, especially if I've sharpened a razor or two since it's been lapped last. It will always raise a slurry with tools for me.

For razors, I think any of the artificial stones - kings, shaptons, sigma powers, etc are all so capable of the work that needs to be done that it makes little difference and spending a lot of money on the stones is not a matter of practicality (I will not say how much I've paid for different stones) because the edge of a razor receives extremely insignificant wear compared to a woodworking tool, and that most people would be advised to buy whatever is a good deal in synthetics and save their money for a good natural finisher - something that makes a much bigger difference in a day to day shave for a user who doesn't use a loaded strop.

That's just my opinion, though.