Thread: Jnat buyers remorse: please help me ;'(

I gave up trying to prevent people from buying $500 stones a long time ago. I'm surprised there aren't more posts like yours floating around though. No matter what the stone is I think the key to honing is to use negative pressure. That is to prevent the full weight of the blade from contacting the stone and to use a maximum x pattern, that is with as much vertical stroke as possible. This combination produces the absolute LEAST amount of honing action, per lap. Then, and only then, can you sneak up on the sharpest edge, one stroke (lap) at a time.

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

I gave up trying to prevent people from buying $500 stones a long time ago. I'm surprised there aren't more posts like yours floating around though. No matter what the stone is I think the key to honing is to use negative pressure. That is to prevent the full weight of the blade from contacting the stone and to use a maximum x pattern, that is with as much vertical stroke as possible. This combination produces the absolute LEAST amount of honing action, per lap. Then, and only then, can you sneak up on the sharpest edge, one stroke (lap) at a time.

Thank you very much that is what I have been doing with synthetics and it has worked very well so far. but for this new jnat it has not worked yet.


I have not tried polishing an 8k sharp edge on the jnat yet (will be doing later today) but negative pressure did not work with nagura progression.

part of the reason is that I know when to proceed in the synthetic stones, when it shaves arm hair like a pocket knife I go from 1k to 4k, when it shaves arm hair easily I go from 4k to 8k and I finish with "negative pressure" that you mentioned it gives shaving edge.

I don't know the parallel in jnats though, I don't know how sharp the edge should be before I move from Botan to Tenjo, etc..

tonight I will be trying to take an already shave ready 8k edge on the jnat with water only to see if I can polish it. (no nagura for now) once I learn the finishing properties of the stone I will move on to playing with nagura stones.

Thanks
Dan

A tomonagura in my experience should be softer than the hone
on which it is used. Harder ones will scratch the stone, so I find
this amateuristic by the seller to provide you with a harder
tomonagura.

First if your jnat still has scratches, remove them. Using loose
grit on a piece of float glass is very easy. Or flatten your synthetics
with your diamond stone and then use them to flatten the jnat. Flatten
them often so you are sure your stone is getting flattened correctly.

Try this. Do your synthetic procedure again up to your finest
stone. Then on your Jnat use the finest nagura slurry. Keep
working on this slurry, dilute it slowly so you end up with very
little slurry. This should give you a good edge.

Keep us updated.

Sharpman

Are there any shining lines on your stone? Shiny lines could indicate
a toxic line.

You dont need to remove all scratches from your stone it is just waist of the stone money in the sink !

For Tomo Nagura i providet Lv 4 where his stone is Lv 5+, it is hard to make slurry from some hard Naguras, but that what many of Jnat users want, in many case i also recommend to get softer Nagura instead but many users get angry and demand same hardnes Nagura as they hone it self.

Try to make just one grove in your Tomo nagura it will help biding a slurry but it will be from your main stone and not from your Nagura

Originally Posted by maxim207

You dont need to remove all scratches from your stone it is just waist of the stone money in the sink !

For Tomo Nagura i providet Lv 4 where his stone is Lv 5+, it is hard to make slurry from some hard Naguras, but that what many of Jnat users want, in many case i also recommend to get softer Nagura instead but many users get angry and demand same hardnes Nagura as they hone it self.

Try to make just one grove in your Tomo nagura it will help biding a slurry but it will be from your main stone and not from your Nagura

The fact that the tomonagura actually scratched his stone according
to the OP makes me think that the tomonagura is actually very close to the
stones hardness. I have never been able to scratch my hard stone with
an even slighltly softer tomonagura. I don't know about your hardness
ratings, but LV 5+ and LV4 seems quite a difference, so I am surprised
it would cause scratches.

Originally Posted by SharpMan

The fact that the tomonagura actually scratched his stone according
to the OP makes me think that the tomonagura is actually very close to the
stones hardness. I have never been able to scratch my hard stone with
an even slighltly softer tomonagura. I don't know about your hardness
ratings, but LV 5+ and LV4 seems quite a difference, so I am surprised
it would cause scratches.

Those super hard stones is difficult to make slurry on even with bit softer Nagura, i dont know what stone you have but maybe it is quite soft it self.
If you have big pressure or not scarfed edges on your Nagura it will scratch even if its softer.
If you want slurry from your hone it self and not from your Nagura you need harder Nagura thats why many people ask for one !
It is not necessarily better but that what they ask for.
If you dont have patience to take time and very slowly to make slurry then you need softer one.

For the line in the stone like Daniel said already i have tested the stone and it is not toxic !!! Or you can not even feel it with your razor.
If it is, it is very simpel i have for all of my stones return policy, if you dont like you can return
Same is with nagura if you dont like i send you new free of charge

Here is bit better picture of the hone and the line

Originally Posted by danielghofrani

I don't know the parallel in jnats though, I don't know how sharp the edge should be before I move from Botan to Tenjo, etc..
tonight I will be trying to take an already shave ready 8k edge on the jnat with water only to see if I can polish it. (no nagura for now) once I learn the finishing properties of the stone I will move on to playing with nagura stones.

If you have a shaveready edge at 8k doesn't that make most of the nagura redundant ? I use a very thin slurry of Tenjyo after 12k then often go straight to my finisher on plain water or a light Atoma slurry raised with my 1200 plate. When I say light the slurry is not noticeable to the naked eye. I use a slightly thicker slurry on Tenjyo but nonetheless edge gets sharper not duller as you described in an earlier post. Something you need to correct if that happens.
Slurry too crunchy from pressing too hard on the nagura ? Missed strokes ? I don't know but it does take a little time to learn with naturals & then when you think you've got it you'll learn some more.

KISS

Here are the facts as I see them from the thread

You are fairly new to honing
You sought out and bought a HARD Jnat
Very hard Jnats are known to be for advanced honing
It takes quite a bit of experience and practice to get the most out of an advanced stone
It takes even more experience to learn to get the most out of any Jnat when honing western style razors
Western razors don't use enough pressure while honing to make use of the slurry techniques to get a smoother edge then just water on the stone
Watch ALX's vid again his unconventional style breaks down the slurry so does a Pigtail Stroke search it out
If you wanted faster results then you should have bought either the Shapton or the Naniwa systems
Honing on any Natural period, has to be a romance and you have to embrace the challenge
There is no easy solution Honing is not rocket science therefore there is no set formula
Once you get one razor to pop, that is just the very begining of the journey


Good Luck with taking the first steps

Originally Posted by gssixgun

KISS

Here are the facts as I see them from the thread

You are fairly new to honing
You sought out and bought a HARD Jnat
Very hard Jnats are known to be for advanced honing
It takes quite a bit of experience and practice to get the most out of an advanced stone
It takes even more experience to learn to get the most out of a Jant when honing western style razors
Western razors don't use enough pressure while honing to make use of the slurry techniques to get a smoother edge then just water on the stone
Watch ALX's vid again his unconventional style breaks down the slurry so does a Pigtail Stroke search it out
If you wanted faster results then you should have bought either the Shapton or the Naniwa systems
Honing on any Natural period, has to be a romance and you have to embrace the challenge
There is no easy solution Honing is not rocket science therefore there is no set formula
Once you get one razor to pop, that is just the very begining of the journey


Good Luck with taking the first steps

yes everything that you said is very true. yes shapton glass stones would have been a sound choice but I wanted to " be in the romance and accept the challenge"

I feel confident now and it is good to know that my technique is the limiting factor and it is not the stone itself. I am going to have a lot of fun learning this stone.

I already had some improvement today when I finished my 8k razor on Mejiro nagura and I let it break down all the way and then I used light strokes. Since I am having difficulty raising a slurry with the tomo nagura dear Maksim (who sold me the stones) told me he would send me another softer one soon (I am very appreciative of his generosity and kindness).