Thread: Bevel setting and speed vs grit

What live been honing on has been a norton 1k for bevel setting then a BBW/coti finishing on a LM.

I bought 2/5/8k shapton pro stones for my knives at work and they are really fast by comparison to the nortons I used to use for my knives, the 5k probably removes metal faster than my 1k norton, it will be covered in metal in a matter of 20 seconds with light pressure.

I was thinking in bevel setting your doing 95% of the metal removal you do in a honing session, so why would I even use my 1k norton when my 2k shapton will in theory get the job done 10 times faster with less strokes to potentially mess up.

Just so long as speed does not equal depth of the cuts...

What I mean is a hone that cuts deep into the metal is not as good for razors as one the cuts fast yet shallow...

So look close at the striations and at the very edge and as long as you not getting deep cuts or micro-serrations at the edge then yer fine

g

The scratch pattern is definitely finer than the 1k norton, but i didn't look for micro serration, I'll check for that next time I hone something with them.

I've never used the glass stones wouldn't they cut a similar depth to the pros being from the same company?

btw the pros are soo hard and take forever to lap out even the smallest dishing you cant see im gonna blow out a elbow lapping these one day haha.

Originally Posted by justinA

What live been honing on has been a norton 1k for bevel setting then a BBW/coti finishing on a LM.

I bought 2/5/8k shapton pro stones for my knives at work and they are really fast by comparison to the nortons I used to use for my knives, the 5k probably removes metal faster than my 1k norton, it will be covered in metal in a matter of 20 seconds with light pressure.

I was thinking in bevel setting your doing 95% of the metal removal you do in a honing session, so why would I even use my 1k norton when my 2k shapton will in theory get the job done 10 times faster with less strokes to potentially mess up.

+1 on gssixgun's comment.
A while back he commented that shapton hones "just work" no fuss....

I think you will find that:
The 2/5/8 sequence will get you a very good strop ready edge.
Adjusting that edge with a coti and finishing on a LM or any other
finisher is simply a matter of shave test discovered preferences.

The shapton hones are used by a number of folk here and their results are
reported to be as good as any.

Originally Posted by niftyshaving

+1 on gssixgun's comment.
A while back he commented that shapton hones "just work" no fuss....

I think you will find that:
The 2/5/8 sequence will get you a very good strop ready edge.
Adjusting that edge with a coti and finishing on a LM or any other
finisher is simply a matter of shave test discovered preferences.

The shapton hones are used by a number of folk here and their results are
reported to be as good as any.

I just hadnt read much on the Pros other than people seem to like the glass stones better for razors Lynn being one of them, i got them for my knives first and razors second. The pros took me a little while to figure out for knives, you can feel when they start to dish way before you can see it which isn't as much of a problem for razors since you arnt using pressure or removing nearly as much metal, i like their feel a lot tho.

IIRC the one complaint about the pro series shapton is that they were softer than the glass series and wore/dished much more quickly. not sure if that was on here or one of the blade forums that people compared the 2. i just have the glass series so I'm useless at a comparison.

jim

Especially when honing straights there is no real issue with the Shapton Pros dishing, at all.
When speaking chisel- or extreme knive-sharpening terms they might dish faster than the glasstones, but we will hardly be able to tell the difference.

There is no obvious disadvantage of any of the Shapton stones. Use whatever you like better; Pro, GS... doesn't matter.
That being said, I prefer the Glasstones. Because the 30k is much more affordable

I've never used the glass stones wouldn't they cut a similar depth to the pros being from the same company?

Well, no. Different recipe, different stone altogether.
Although in the case of the Shapton pro and gs 2k they seem to have similar cutting strength

I had a full set of the Pros and gave them up for the Shapton Glass. For me, the glass just gave me better feedback and were more consistent when honing every day with them. A lot of people use the Pros and how they work for you is really what matters. The one thing my experience has taught me is that the Norton 1K is probably the most aggressive and abrasive bevel setter out there (Not taking into consideration 220 stones which I use more for repair than actual bevel setting). It can be quick, but you can pay the price on both spine and bevel wear. This is especially prevalent with new people using uneven pressure until they get more efficient. For me, the Naniwa Chosera 1K is still the ticket although a 2K is close enough to get the job done. Both are quick cutters and very reliable.

Have fun.

Also note that the metal swarf seen on the stone isn't equal to the metal amount that is removed. For example, if you hone for about one minute on a DMT 325, and one minute on a Shapton Pro 12k, than you will get what I mean. The shapton will be full of swarf, where the DMT will look almost clean, and the DMT is worlds faster than the 12k pro. A lot of very small metal filings look blacker than fewer bigger filings.

Originally Posted by jeness

Also note that the metal swarf seen on the stone isn't equal to the metal amount that is removed. For example, if you hone for about one minute on a DMT 325, and one minute on a Shapton Pro 12k, than you will get what I mean. The shapton will be full of swarf, where the DMT will look almost clean, and the DMT is worlds faster than the 12k pro. A lot of very small metal filings look blacker than fewer bigger filings.

This is actually a very good point. If speed is what you are after, the DMT 325 and DMT1200 are there for you. They are in my opinion, more abrasive than the Norton's. They will leave pretty deep scratch marks though and you have to be careful when using them as they will eat up a spine in a heartbeat if you don't use tape.