Thread: Do high grit homes even matter ?

The progression of grits from 1k to 12k or higher is a modern development. Go back to the American, European, or Japanese masters of blade sharpening and you will not find more than three grit levels that usually top out at 6k or so. The multi-grit approach simply shortens the exercise of bringing an edge to shave readiness. However, you can achieve the same level of sharpness with a few more strokes on fewer grit levels. The final grit level for a modern DE is 1K. That's right! Then they finish and coat the edge and shave. We have no coatings so we must progress to a high polish with the 4k and up stones to reach a similar shaving smoothness. Of course the CrO and leather stropping refine this even further. We are ALL probably using more grit levels than we really need, but that is what makes this journey so much fun.

Originally Posted by Zglozmn

I am having a feeling that I can not tell a difference between 16k to 4k. After its been stopped it sort of feels the same . Also I notice that I get a better edge if I lift the spine from the stone or strop a bit like 1/8th. Anybody felt the same ?

I'm guessing your bevel is not fully set & lifting the spine allows you to get the stone onto the very edge. A 16k edge should be very different to 4k.

You said earlier that you can't tell the difference between a 4K and 16K hone when you shave. While I agree with others that there is a definite difference between a 4K and 16K in the edge created, you said something in your following response that I think might explain a little better your initial 4K to 16K comment...

Originally Posted by Zglozmn

I just feel like it does a fine job... I seems to me that stropping is where the action is at.

You have two identical straight razors. One was finished on a 12K and the second finished on the 16K. With each, how many shaves could you get if you didn't strop? Maybe two. Possibly, you might get two and one half shaves out of them without stropping.

Undoubtedly, for most of the life of a razor between honings, the edge we shave with is a stropped edge and not the honed edge. So, in essence I agree with you that "stropping is where the action is at."

But, 4K? Even though I give you the point that stropping is very important, 4K seems too low grit to me still.

When I started honing just for myself, I started on the cheap with balsa, pastes, Arkansas hones... just about any surface and abrasive I could find. That was very tough sledding, but a great way to learn some basics. I believed that I could get edges that shaved reasonably with those rough tools. When I bought some Naniwas ending in 12K, when I added some chromium and later diamond, my edges moved to a different level. I just didn't know that there was shave ready and then SHAVE READY until I bought the higher grit equipment.

How do you finish after the 4K?

Traditional japanese sword sharpening has 6 common base levels before the actual polishing. In the end they are looking at a polish that will slowly be worn down by uchiko which SEEMS to compare to about .5 micron or 9K to 12K. Not saying all swords would require it, if it came in in a decent polish it would start out at just the polishing stages. if it came in with some fine scratches they might start out in the middle of the progression. Bad scratches and they will go as low as they need to. most of what ever gets discussed is touching up the polish of a well maintained edge, but if you bring them a sword with a chip it will start on more course stones and work through a progression until the polishing stages. Unless by modern you mean more modern than the bronze age. Though I agree that in a time of war people were not too concerned and would do a battlefield touch up on about any rock they could find.

I also agree that if the OP finds lifting the edge makes an appreciable difference you should refocus on properly setting the bevel. I would also bet you probably find yourself having to touch up the razors on the stone often. I dont think I am a great honer, but i would estimate 2-3 months before a razor would need really touchup work on a stone. My current gameplan is 6 monthly swipes on a barber hone w/ later and see how long it will go.

I think I see why you would think there is no difference between 4k and 16k in something you said "stropping is where it's at".

If you're taking an edge off the 4k and stropping 300 laps I could see how it would smooth it out quite a bit.

If you want to feel the difference test shave the edge off each stone without stropping. Look at it under magnification and the visual difference should be staggering if the honing progression is done correctly. Good to see you're getting good shaves either way.

Originally Posted by xMackx

I think I see why you would think there is no difference between 4k and 16k in something you said "stropping is where it's at".

If you're taking an edge off the 4k and stropping 300 laps I could see how it would smooth it out quite a bit.

If you want to feel the difference test shave the edge off each stone without stropping. Look at it under magnification and the visual difference should be staggering if the honing progression is done correctly. Good to see you're getting good shaves either way.

Huge plus 1

There is a thread on here where the guys took the "whole bevel set is 90% of the work" and put it to the test, they were shaving off the 1k.. Taking the time and shaving even if only a few test strokes off of each stone in your progression will give you a ton of insight to what each level does to the edge... It also gives you a confidence boost in your honing ability..

Originally Posted by Zglozmn

I am having a feeling that I can not tell a difference between 16k to 4k. After its been stopped it sort of feels the same . Also I notice that I get a better edge if I lift the spine from the stone or strop a bit like 1/8th. Anybody felt the same ?

I have been shaving with a straight exclusively for a year I read this forum and I feels like I am missing something.

Yes. Indeed. I feel the same way. But only if a very light touch is used when grinding, and thorough stropping is done afterward. The stropping seems to make up the difference between stone grits at the expense of needing to use the strop more than with a finer finishing stone.

Put another way: when used carefully the finer grit stones don't make an edge sharper than with a coarser stone so much as they make it finer. And that's not necessarily desirable. After trying out the common advice here on SRP to make as smooth an edge as possible, I find that the shave isn't as good. I end up stropping on canvas then on leather to restore the "toothy" edge that instantly grabs the whiskers and cuts them closely without the need to use techniques such as angled strokes and against-the-grain shaving. It comes as no surprise to me when I read about "honemeisters" stropping a few strokes with fine diamond paste after polishing on super-fine hones.

When sharpening I like to "torque" the razor such that a little more weight is on the edge, just barely touching the spine to the strop or sharpening medium. On some razors I find that lifting the spine just a hair (terrible pun intended) makes for a keener edge.

But it's a personal thing. Some guys like the precision of perfectly flat super-fine stones and strops coated with exotic abrasives, keeping the razor flat throughout the process. If it gives pleasing results then it's a good method.

If you don't feel the difference between 4k and 16k, and your are _totally_ satisfied with your shaves, than you have two choices:
1. Sell your stones above 4k, and you will have less stones taking up space and money, or
2. You will have to practice honing a bit more till you will feel the difference

I am a sharpening addict, so I would go with number two, but if I would only want to shave, than number 1.

@ OP:

May I suggest you take your razor to a honemeister near you, ask him/her to judge the edge and then sharpen it to their usual standard. If after that you still don't notice any difference: chuck all your high grit hones my way (PM me for my address) and shave off a 4K happily ever after.