Thread: Any experience with Suehiro Gokumyo Hones?

The choseras use a magnesia binder (I don't know exactly what that means, other than smooth stones that can't tolerate indefinite soaking), and the shaptons use resin. They may both be polymer types, but are a lot different in feel (you probably know that already). Some of them do flex (superstones have a bad reputation for it, but I had one and didn't notice much because it was in a controlled environment). I've never had choseras or shapton pros flex an amount that I could detect (with tools, where the flatness is vital for the back of an iron), but mine are glued to kingwood.

I would assume that at the hardness, the gokyumos are either vitrified stones (like the old style india stones are) or resin bound. Vitrified stones can be soaked forever, I think, and i'm pretty sure shapton says not to do that with their stones though they do state in their instructions that a 10 minute soak is beneficial.

I'm not a stone expert, though, just a pig with a problem. But not a big enough problem to buy a gokyumo at this point.

Originally Posted by DaveW

The choseras use a magnesia binder (I don't know exactly what that means, other than smooth stones that can't tolerate indefinite soaking), and the shaptons use resin. They may both be polymer types, but are a lot different in feel (you probably know that already). Some of them do flex (superstones have a bad reputation for it, but I had one and didn't notice much because it was in a controlled environment). I've never had choseras or shapton pros flex an amount that I could detect (with tools, where the flatness is vital for the back of an iron), but mine are glued to kingwood.

I would assume that at the hardness, the gokyumos are either vitrified stones (like the old style india stones are) or resin bound. Vitrified stones can be soaked forever, I think, and i'm pretty sure shapton says not to do that with their stones though they do state in their instructions that a 10 minute soak is beneficial.

I'm not a stone expert, though, just a pig with a problem. But not a big enough problem to buy a gokyumo at this point.

My pros and my superstones would change from session to session. When I was new and dumb enough to drink the kool aid, I was so concerned with flatness that I bought a Starrett # 385 `12" machinist's straight edge. I would check for flatness with that and my superstones, the ones that were thick with no base, would need lapping before each session and so would the pros. Not the nortons or the chosera 1k. If the 20,000 gizmo is of that ilk I would start thinking about it. Otherwise I'll keep suffering with my yellow green escher. Truth is, I'm not as concerned with flatness as I used to be but at least some semblance of flat.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Otherwise I'll keep suffering with my yellow green escher.

Sounds like you're roughing it! I wish I could say I had an escher. Also not that interested in super flat for razors, either. It's pretty easy just to look at what's going on with the razor bevel to find out if the stone is addressing the entire bevel on each swipe. If it is, especially on the finest stone, there's no reason to get excited and waste stone and time.

I know this is an old post. I am waiting for mine any day now. I have a chosera 10k and a naniwa 12. I would prefer to use the chosera 10k. Is this ok from 10 to 20 k. I know shaptons double in grit 8 to 16 to 30. Thanks.

Originally Posted by bill3152

I know this is an old post. I am waiting for mine any day now. I have a chosera 10k and a naniwa 12. I would prefer to use the chosera 10k. Is this ok from 10 to 20 k. I know shaptons double in grit 8 to 16 to 30. Thanks.

Sure. That is what I'm doing. If you think about it that is what Norton does as well. Four to eight. Some guys have found the shave off the Chosera 10k 'crisp' or harsh. I have not found it so. For me it has been acceptably smooth. The 20k makes it that much better.

Originally Posted by DaveW

Sounds like you're roughing it! I wish I could say I had an escher. Also not that interested in super flat for razors, either. It's pretty easy just to look at what's going on with the razor bevel to find out if the stone is addressing the entire bevel on each swipe. If it is, especially on the finest stone, there's no reason to get excited and waste stone and time.

I've wanted to ask for some time how flat a hone really needs to be. Of course, a dished out hone will cause problems, and a hone fresh from the factory may need to be lapped, but what about hones, for example the Gokumyo 20K and the Naniwa SS 12K which have been in normal usage and were originally lapped.

When finishing even one razor on a Gokumyo 20K, even for only 20 to 30 laps, there is some discoloration of the stone as a result of steel removal. Certainly that doesn't mean that it must be lapped to return it to its beautiful white color. So, balancing the issues of flatness and unnecessary stone loss, are there any rough guidelines? I've found myself getting lazy in the past and not lapping for months while fully honing 30 to 40 blades and never saw a problem. Any opinions?

Originally Posted by ace

I've wanted to ask for some time how flat a hone really needs to be. Of course, a dished out hone will cause problems, and a hone fresh from the factory may need to be lapped, but what about hones, for example the Gokumyo 20K and the Naniwa SS 12K which have been in normal usage and were originally lapped.

When finishing even one razor on a Gokumyo 20K, even for only 20 to 30 laps, there is some discoloration of the stone as a result of steel removal. Certainly that doesn't mean that it must be lapped to return it to its beautiful white color. So, balancing the issues of flatness and unnecessary stone loss, are there any rough guidelines? I've found myself getting lazy in the past and not lapping for months while fully honing 30 to 40 blades and never saw a problem. Any opinions?

Just lap it initially, and then give it a good rinse after each honing session.
I have over a thousand razors on it by now, and it is plenty flat still.
It is one hard bugger
A little discolorstion does not affect honing much at all


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I get the swarf on my choseras. I use the 600 grit slurry stone to clean em up. Or my 600 dmt 6 x 2 inch. I hone with a bucket of water at my side so its real easy. Those 600 slurry stones really clean up the dmts also. I will see how the suehiro goes. I will lap with my usual 325 dmt. Unless it needs a lot and then I break out the 120 to 325 and 600 for final.

When I first got the 20k I put a Starratt straight edge on it and it had a slight crown. I didn't feel like lapping it, just lazy, so I honed a few razors on it focusing on the crowned portion. There was a Dr/honemeister from Japan a couple of years ago who was posting quite a bit on J-nats and honing with them. Rather than lap the rare and precious stones he would put a straight edge on them and hone on the high spots. Sort of lap them by honing on them. I guess that is where I got the idea.

The razors I did this way came out fine. I eventually did lap the thing and it was tough. On lapping in general, I lap my hones when I feel like they need it. I have been honing and decided lapping would be an improvement, in the midst of a honing session, lapped and it was an improvement. So it is sort of intuitive I think. OTOH, the old barbers I used to talk with about stones and honing never once mentioned it. I don't think I've ever seen it written about in a barber manual.

I once bought an FWE razor from a barber's son. It had been stored for 20 years and when I received it the razor was super shave ready. I continued to correspond with the seller and eventually bought his father's coticule. One of the usual 5x2 1/2 naturals many of them seemed to own back then. It has an inclusion in the surface that is cosmetic and doesn't effect the honing. It was dished on one side of the yellow, so he must have used it the same way all of the time.

I eventually lapped it and as soft as coticules are it took quite a bit of work. Point being that as sharp as that FWE was, the old fellow must have been quite a honer, and obviously didn't lap his stone. Not to say that I won't stick with lapping. I do think it is the way to go. Just running my mouth here this morning.

Last question and I promise I will leave you guys alone. What if any steps after this hone. I will try it after linen strop and leather obviously but anything else? And any other advice as I have heard 30 laps after the 10k or 12k and right to linen and leather. Would you do half strokes on it to polish and then 10 x strokes? Or just 30 x strokes? I do have .1 micron cbn that I could use on a leather paddle or hanging wool felt. Thanks again.