Thread: Mystery Stone: Maruka Nakayama Kiita Nashiji

I finally bit the bullet and bought a Japanese natural stone in January. It was marketed as a Maruka Nakayama Kiita. It was purported to be an old stock from a Barber and friend of Iwasaki. It was locked with other stones, and reportedly "it is good old days very high quality Nakayama Maruka which is very hard to come by nowadays." He mentioned it was very smooth with fine particles, and honed well.

It was a steal for a Maruka and also of the legendary Kiita color, so I asked for help translating. With some hesitation I bought it. I am glad i did.

For those who might run into these types, I will add what I hope to be useful info. The upper kanji are the marks distinguishing the hone. In the upper left, the top three characters read Sho ( 正 ) Hon ( 本 ) Zan ( 山 ). This could be read differently, but I was assured Sho-Hon-Zan was the correct reading. This means "True mountain" according to Jim Rion's site, or "True Original Mountain" according to my japanese friend - but, she cautioned, "this doesn't mean anything, it is just the name of the mountain - like Main Street". This is a desirable mountain for hones, and it is the same mountain that contains the Nakayama mine. If this is a Kiita from that mountain, I was probably going to have a good quality hone. The bottom three kanji (剃 刀 砥) mean basically "Razor Hone". The first two (剃刀) mean kamisori, or razor, and the last (砥) I assume mean hone - she didn't know the exact english word for this, and thus couldn't translate. She instead looked at me blankly and made honing motions with her hands.

Many stones of varying character mined from this mountain, and some are fast, rough cutters, and some are very hard polishers. The "Razor Hone" kanji I assume meant that this stone was suitable for "Kamisori" or Razors. So this entire Kanji group reads "Razor Hone mined from the ShoHonZan mountain".

The lower leaf kanji are then marks of quality - two in fact. The two top right ( 極上 ) means "Premium", the lower three ( 一本撰 ) mean first or top quality.

I was told these stamps are the marks of testing - meaning the stone was tested and graded, and the stamps meant it passed those standards. As a side note, she mentioned that the language was unusual, and that they should have used hiragana in place of the lowest kanji. She took this to mean it was a marketing play "to make it cool". This does not mean it is not true, however, just that they used more of a marketing type lingo here.





So I was left with some detective work when it arrived. There was no Maruka circle stamp, which means if it was a Maruka, the stamp on the sides wore off. It could also have been a stone that Maruka passed on to others to sell. When Maruka mined, he would only add his name to the finest stones and sell them for a premium. Those with some defect or another would be passed off to others to be sold by wholesalers. The stone also appeared to have been sawn in half, with a rough saw mark on one side. It is now the hand size you see many japanese barbers hone with. It could have been circle marked, but that side cut off to make two hones. I asked the vendor about this, and he wrote that it was a very reputable source, and that he thought it had been sawn in half with the other half, that had the mark on it, sold for much more money. No one knows for sure.

Also, it is not known if this stone was in fact mined from the Nakayama mine. It might have been, or it could have been mined from next door - though the same strata. The very knowledgable user alx posted good info here on the authenticity of Nakayama stones. This stone posses the SHoHonZan kanji, but the "kamisori hone" kanji is different than what he has linked to. Perhaps he can shed some light on this.

All that I was certain of is that this was in fact a Kiita Nashiji. These refer to the color. The Kiita refers to the yellow color, a much sought after stone for its cutting qualities. The Nashiji is an asian pear, which you might see in your local grocery store. It is quite delicious, but with stones the Nashiji refers to its specks. This supposedly causes it to have a faster cutting power, but that is debatable.

Next up was to use it and see the quality first hand. I'll post more on this process.

This is one that I got sometime back, I guess the name actually goes in a different order heck all I know is that it works

Nakayama Tomae Midori Nashiji

http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...-nakayama.html

The specks on your Kitta are much easier to see

The side stamp does not wear off so easy.
Those stones are not real marukas , you can find them on Japanese auctions a lot of them and they are not expensive. Some stones have the maruka stamp right on top of the hone too, not the side where it supposed to be, makes me doubt authenticity even more.

The story about the barber that was friend with Iwasaki has been going on for ~ 2 years now, and I do not think it is sellers fault its what he was told by those that put the stamps on the stones. Right now razor sized Kiita colored Nkayamas (if you can find them ) go for some real crazy prices think in the order 400+ USD, there is some kind of hype going on with kiita stones in Japan that ups the prices a lot. All that being said if the stone works nothing else matters.

When you hone on it .... if it delivers the goods in a big way you'll be less concerned about the kanji. Hope it is a winner for you.

I wanted a hone that I would pass on to my kid (whichever one got my love for tools and honing), so I lapped the top, taking off the markings (i saved pics). I planned on keeping it regardless. If it turned out to be too fast or rough, I would use it for tools. The vendor marked it as a 5 in hardness, however, but also noted it was a good, smooth cutter.

Lapping: I made the error of lapping with a norton lapping stone. This was a mistake. It just did not want to lap well with the composition of this hone. If you buy a good quality Japanese stone, don't put a norton near it. It's insulting. I bought a DMT and lapped it flat and very smooth, which took some work as there was dips in two corners - perhaps the reason Maruka would have passed it off. It raises slurry like mad, so I wondered about the hardness. The slurry, however, was like silk. I do not know if sandpaper would work because of the amount of fine particles that come off - it would take a lot of paper. The DMT worked best. Invest in one if you can.

Once that was done, I began the very long process of figuring this stone out - 8 months. I honed with various Nagura - the stones you use with Japanese Natural stones to raise slurry. I had a Shobudani that I used in the meantime, so it was ok. I figured out through trial and error that this kiita did not like my nagura. I found out, though, that my Nagura were not top quality, another mistake. It does not pay to skimp on your slurry with good stones. I plan on buying high quality ones once they come available again. So two notes: use a dmt to lap (and slurry), and use highest quality nagura you can find.

The reason is because your slurry is actually composed of the Nagura and some of the hone. The amount of hone in the mix depends on your hone composition and the hardness of the Nagura. At the bottom end of Nagura, Botan is very soft and rough, and on up in hardness and fineness to Tomonagura, which is a small piece of another hone. On my Shoubudani I get almost nothing but Nagura, as that stone is VERY hard. This Kiita, however, is a very odd beast. It gives up slurry easily, yet is still very hard…?

As far as Tomonagura, I received many from maksim with my Shobudani (he is a nice guy). I tried many out, but like the nagura, they would just not give me good edges. I tried for months to find the right combo to get this Kiita to work with various types of Tomonagura, even using the Shobudani. Last week I decided another route.

I have a kamisori that I shave with exclusively. I have some very nice western straights, but the size and fit of a kamisori is perfect for my face and thick beard. It developed a rough edge and upon inspection, had two small nicks in the blade. I decided to test using only the Kiita. I used the dmt to raise a slurry, and began with pressure to reset the bevel and hone out the chips. I do not mind honing like some, it is meditative to me. This went very fast, however. It was not long before I had a straight and clean edge. It was removing a lot of metal depending on my pressure, turning the kiita which switched from the green side to the more yellow side. The slurry would be raised again, and following a kamisori guide written here, I progressed up to just water. As I looked at the blade under the microscope during this process, I was shocked to see almost no scratch marks even in the bevel setting stage. Really. It was a smooth finish, yet it was removing metal very fast - almost like burning it off. It was hard for me to tell where I was in the process, as I am used to determining the stage base don the marks left in the blade. As I lighted my touch, the smoothness increased, but never was there the marks I see from rough Nagura in the initial stages. This stone seemed to be able to, with only its own slurry (breaking down), set a bevel and finish the razor. I was done in 30 mins.

It was a very, very smooth cutter, with feedback, yet with water and a feather touch could put almost a mirror polish. I used Jim Rion's back and forth techniques. There developed no wire. I went to a green paste balsa like Iwasaki recommended, then to a strop. I shaved yesterday and had a wonderful shave. I was shocked at the capabilities of this hone. I thought today to maybe use the shoubudani to finish it lightly, but honestly I see no reason. I got a great shave!

In all, so far, this was a great buy. It wasn't cheap, but no where near what I see Maruka Nakayama Kiita's going for. But my experience with this stone leads me to believe you can indeed have a one-stone process unless you need serious metal work. A kiita is a magical stone.

wow gssixgun that is a beautiful stone!

Originally Posted by mainaman

The side stamp does not wear off so easy.
Those stones are not real marukas , you can find them on Japanese auctions a lot of them and they are not expensive. Some stones have the maruka stamp right on top of the hone too, not the side where it supposed to be, makes me doubt authenticity even more.

The story about the barber that was friend with Iwasaki has been going on for ~ 2 years now, and I do not think it is sellers fault its what he was told by those that put the stamps on the stones. Right now razor sized Kiita colored Nkayamas (if you can find them ) go for some real crazy prices think in the order 400+ USD, there is some kind of hype going on with kiita stones in Japan that ups the prices a lot. All that being said if the stone works nothing else matters.

Good info, I figured as much. But I love this stone, so it worked out well. I see maksim has a real maruka nakayama kiita available now for slightly more. If it works like mine, and is authentic, that would be a great buy.

Originally Posted by stmaiku

Good info, I figured as much. But I love this stone, so it worked out well. I see maksim has a real maruka nakayama kiita available now for slightly more. If it works like mine, and is authentic, that would be a great buy.

yes most important is that you like how the stone works .

I have been discussing my experiences with an elderly japanese man, and watched some of Glen's vids on honing a kamisori, and thought I should add some thoughts to clarify. It seems that my fortune is a result of my stone and the nature of the kamisori. I would not be able to reproduce this with a western razor, for sure. I was able to get the great results from this stone (bevel to finish on one stone, and quickly) because it was a kamisori and a good Kiita. Because of the way the kamisori is shaped and composed, one is able to apply and control much greater spans of pressure than one could with a western straight. Also, this type of razor allows a great deal of control when honing, and sharpens very well (some say easily). I pressure sharpen like a sashimi knife, with my fingers on the blade (although facing me). As I work, I lighten the pressure. To finish, I use only one hand and very very light pressure like most others.

I have always strived for a minimalist setup, with one razor (or two ), and one stone. I am happy to report I am able to do this. Again, though, I don't think this can be done with anything other than a kamisori style razor (although some of the more skilled people here might..?). Thanks to all the geniuses who are on this site, though - it is a tremendous resource for learning.

here is my real Nakayama with all cancels....of a colleague, but 350 Euro.....it is the best Stone...