Thread: Norton not Cutting

Ok - I have done something wrong.

I have a relatively new Dovo Best quality - about 60 shaves.
I wanted to touch it up so I got a Norton 4000/8000 and Norton lapping stone. Had some success with that (not great but enough to get the blade shaving again). As a side note, I think my stropping has been rounding the blade - but that is separate issue.

I added a Norton 220/1000 and lapped both side of that was well. i am lapping by making the pencil marks and working till they are all gone. I done "touch up" of the lapping each time I have tried the stones.

At this time the stones are essentially removing no metal. The white Norton 4000 is still white after 30 strokes. Snow white looking.

I tried lapping the stones on 229 grit paper over a sheet of glass. It seems to lap and I see stuff clouding the water. I have also put the Norton lapping stone on the paper but that does not seem to make any difference.

what have I done?

Thanks,
David

Possibilities:

1. Is your lapping removing the pencil marks?
2. The 4K does require quite a bit of lapping to come into its own.
3. 229 grit sandpaper? Is that correct? I would have gone with 400 or 600 as a minimum.

Let's see
yes - the marks are completely removed - this has been done twice with several other attempts without the marks. I am fairly sure the stones are flat.
The surfaces do appear to be even and consistent from edge to edge of each stone.
Sorry about the 229 - it seems that the nine is next door to the zero. I picked that since the progress with 320 was slow ....

Just now - the 8k is removing more metal that then 4k - I am pretty sure that is not normal.

thanks for the help...

Originally Posted by DavidinTexas

Let's see
yes - the marks are completely removed - this has been done twice with several other attempts without the marks. I am fairly sure the stones are flat.
The surfaces do appear to be even and consistent from edge to edge of each stone.
Sorry about the 229 - it seems that the nine is next door to the zero. I picked that since the progress with 320 was slow ....

Just now - the 8k is removing more metal that then 4k - I am pretty sure that is not normal.

thanks for the help...

How are you determining how much metal is being removed? Viewing the metal on the hone itself would in my opinion be a poor way to determine this, and I haven't heard of that as a means to sharpening a razor, really. When you're setting a bevel and needing to do a lot of work on a razor certainly you'll see some evidence of the razor's metal on the hone, but it's probably a poor way to determine success.

I think checking out the actual edge of the razor; with a magnifying glass or even with the naked eye is a good way. I use only three tests, really. Firstly, the Thumb Pad Test. Using my thumb I gently rub it sideways against the edge. By this I can tell (by experience) if the edge is sharp at all. The edge 'catches' the skin of my thumb. Secondly, as I start the honing, I shave my leg hairs as a test. If the razor pops hairs easily I go from the 4/8 to the Shapton 16k. The third test is of course the shave itself. In my opinion and experience that's the only set of tests I need.

To reiterate, in my experience I don't see a lot of metal on the hone unless I'm doing a LOT of honing (setting a bevel).

It sounds to me that you are lapping correctly. I use the Norton lapping stone and although many talk of other options I find the Norton lapping stone adequate.

Hope this is of some help.

Carl

David, you might not be getting to the edge of the bevel.....yet. IMO, Dovo's come with a bevel which is way steep. You might need to do a felt tip marker test to see if you are getting to the edge, or just grinding down the top of the bevel. Paint the entire bevel with a marksalot or similar, lay the blade flat on the 1000 stone and go several strokes. Look at the edge carefully under magnification. If you see any remnants of the black on the very edge, I would say to tape the spine with a layer of electrical tape and get with the 1000 until this test is positive. Change the tape frequently. As the ink disappears, the bevel is reaching the edge! Then, and only then, will you be ready to begin. A new piece of tape and then begin. JMO

OK - to be clear - I am not using the metal on the stone to gauge the sharpness of the blade or to gauge the amount of honing i have done. But when it seems to take 100-200 strokes to get any kind of sharpness (based on shaving arm hair) AND I am not seeing any metal on the 4k - then I wonder what is happening.

i also tried marking the edge (red sharpie). the red slowly disappeared - reasonably evenly - but it took maybe 10 strokes.

It seems that I see much more metal on the 8k (yellow) than I see on the white (4k). Once I got to the 8k i have a nice, very shiny, edge. It shaves arm hair well. I plan to strop, gently, and test shave in the morning.

Once again - I appreciate everyone's help and ideas.

Also where did you get the razor from and or who has honed it before?

good point - I bought the blade from Vintage Blades LLC - so I understand that it should have come to me in good shape. It did seem to work well - until my poor stropping caused an issue.

Sorry don't have any experience with them. But good starting point for you would be to email them and see if they used tape to originally hone the blade. If so you will have to ether use tape or reset the bevel without tape.

The swarf on my 8k (and 1k and pretty much everything else) becomes noticeable faster than it does on my 4k as well. That's normal. It's odd that the white one doesn't show swarf as well, eh?

Rub the spine/toe corner of the razor over part of the stone - if it leaves a line, you're cutting metal.