Thread: My New Narutaki Asagi from Alex

First my jnat disclaimer, hehe!
"All jnats are different, so what I say might not apply to your hone!"

I listen to the sound when he's honing and that tells me it's not so fine.
On my finishers I use for razors there is no sound at all, other than the tick when you put the razor to the stone.
I know sometimes microphones pick up some sounds more than others but it's still a noisy stone.
That said, if used with a light touch you might still get e nice edge, as you said you got.
But I'm with Onimaru55, fast and fine don't go hand in hand.
If I want it? You bet!

Edit; He is using a diamond plate as nagura, that will get bigger particles in the slurry than if you would have used a tomo nagura.
That will also make for more noise.
I also compared the sound with his other videos, and even the Nakayama Asagi video is quite noisy but again, diamond nagura.
You really have to try this stone with a good tomo nagura and work it so the slurry breaks down to nothing.
One question, does it self slurry?

Originally Posted by Lemur

But I'm with Onimaru55, fast and fine don't go hand in hand.

I didn't say that. There are fast, fine hard stones but they aren't reasonably priced.

From the video it looks like a nice medium hard pre-polisher. I don't say that to be derogatory as you can get a great edge from that kind of stone , after all people even get great shaves from Norton 8k's, just that if it can remove DMT 1200 scratches quickly it is not as fine as a slower harder polisher.

Well, then I got you wrong, sorry about that!

Then I stand by this alone, fast and fine don't go hand in hand, but that's a question on how one define "fast" and "fine".
In my book you have to choose or go down the middle!

I have never heard of a ultra fast superfine stone, but I would sure want one!

Originally Posted by Lemur

I have never heard of a ultra fast superfine stone, but I would sure want one!

It's a relative expression. It just means there are polishers that cut fast for there fineness. They are still polishers & by definition still slow compared to coarser stones.

To use an analogy, a 1k Chocera is reputedly faster than a 1k King yet they are both bevel setters.

Fast & Fine Finishing Hone = Shapton GS 16k to put it in perspective to a Synthetic

Originally Posted by Lemur

First my jnat disclaimer, hehe!
"All jnats are different, so what I say might not apply to your hone!"

I listen to the sound when he's honing and that tells me it's not so fine.
On my finishers I use for razors there is no sound at all, other than the tick when you put the razor to the stone.
I know sometimes microphones pick up some sounds more than others but it's still a noisy stone.
That said, if used with a light touch you might still get e nice edge, as you said you got.
But I'm with Onimaru55, fast and fine don't go hand in hand.
If I want it? You bet!

Edit; He is using a diamond plate as nagura, that will get bigger particles in the slurry than if you would have used a tomo nagura.
That will also make for more noise.
I also compared the sound with his other videos, and even the Nakayama Asagi video is quite noisy but again, diamond nagura.
You really have to try this stone with a good tomo nagura and work it so the slurry breaks down to nothing.
One question, does it self slurry?

Hello Lemur
You are right, the sound is loud and because I use a diamond plate to make a coarse slurry it will sound louder or coarser than if you used a tomonagura. I like to use a tomonagura for the finishing stages leading to clear water, this is a technique that is popular. Also remember that my Iphone microphone is only 8 inches away from the stone and this exaggerates the sound.

The method I am using for the demonstration is The Ax Method, it is a sharpening technique, not a polishing technique. If you get a chance to use it I would appreciate it very much if you could give me a critique as to what you think of it. The Ax Method is a technique I developed to test stones abilities to quickly bring a razor to a shave ready stage. It is not a polishing method but it will easily provide a foundation bevel that you can then go to clear water or a different naguras for polishing.

Medium hard stones in the 4+, 5- or 5 range can be used for polishing bevels, and some of them will do it faster than an ultra hard stone in the 5+ or higher range. A slurry will always leave a footprint or scratch pattern of the slurry composition, and this is why it is important to use a tomonagura of the highest quality and of similar grit to your base stone. This is demonstrated with using Mikawa Aichi nagura, you begin with a slightly coarser nagura and finish with the finest nagura. Why would anyone want to finish with a lower grit stone?

Using a diamond nagura to make a slurry from the base stone is I have to admit a method that begins with quite large size grit particles because as Dave mentioned, the grit is dug out by the diamonds in large particles. The smaller or more worn out the diamond plate is, the smaller are the girt particles that you begin with. This is one reason way The Ax Method is so fast and the stones cut so quickly.

The grit found in Japanese stones from the Kyoto area is a type of silica called Chert. Chert - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Many people think of silica in the form of sand which usually has a rounded shape, chert usually has an irregular form and the chert silica found in the Kyoto area stones has a flat plate type of shape that is easily chipped or broken. The North American Indians favored chert for their arrow and spear heads and they formed they by chipping them in a flecking manner, the chert cleaves off in very thin sharp slices. It is because of the nature of chert to fleck that it makes a very hard abrasive that will breakdown into smaller particles. Here are a couple of good paragraphs on the Tamba Terrane from whence the Kyoto stones come from.

Geology of Japan - Google Books

I hope these links work, but if not you can google The Geology of Japan or Tamba Terrane to get some of these same articles.

I hope this helps. Alx