Thread: Chosera 5K or Shapton 6K

I am looking for a general opinion in regards to Chosera 5K v Shapton 6K. I know both are good but which would you advise to get?
My current progression is
Chosera 400, 1K, 3K .... Katayama 8K, Shapton 16K, Balsa strops, leather.
As you can see I really can use a stone in 5K range. I love my choseras I find that 16K shapton sometimes dulls the edge.
Chosera would be about $130 Shapton would be about $80 so I can get a base for $30 and still save
Man is a tough one.
Thanks for your input.

I think your current progression is fine. I go from the Naniwa 3K to 8K all the time followed by the Shapton Glass 16K and end up with nice edges. I also use the 5K to 8K and then finishing stone so that is another good alternative.

Have fun.

I agree - progression looks sound without a 5k.

The Chosera 5k is usually followed by a 10k, and the 3k chosera is such a good hone that the jump from 3k to 8k is not much.

I like the 16k shapton glass - had a few of them, but have since replaced mine with a shpton pro 15k which seems - to me at least - a bit more versatile.

Regards,
Neil

This is what makes the sport so much fun. I have tried a set of the Shapton Pro's twice and never got the consistency that I do with the Shapton Glass, so I got rid of them. I think the trick is finding that stone and regiment that becomes reliable for you and sticking with it. Of course we need to experiment with all those other stones and progressions though, just to make sure we understand them.........

Originally Posted by Neil Miller

I agree - progression looks sound without a 5k.

The Chosera 5k is usually followed by a 10k, and the 3k chosera is such a good hone that the jump from 3k to 8k is not much.

I like the 16k shapton glass - had a few of them, but have since replaced mine with a shpton pro 15k which seems - to me at least - a bit more versatile.

Regards,
Neil

Originally Posted by ridnovir

I find that 16K shapton sometimes dulls the edge.

The Shapton GS 16K is a wonderful hone but it can be misunderstood. I say this because it is a bit different than other finishers out there. It cuts very fast and you want to be well assured that it is lapped flat (although Shaptons don't warp or swell too much compared to others) and the edges should be champfered (sp?). We are after all putting finishing final touches on the edge. While we are used to using a lot of strokes (comparatively speaking) on finishers (especially natural ones) with slurry etc. this does not work well with the 16K. Sometimes I've got the most out of this stone with just 4 X strokes- seriously. While it is fast and efficient, yet finicky, it does give you good feedback on the feel when honing. A lot of guys will abandon this stone, buy others, to later come back to it. They just needed to understand where to 'dial it in'. So for me, when I'm sleepy, tired or not confident in having smooth strokes I may use a Naniwa or Norton. They are a bit more forgiving. But when I'm alert and confident I know the Shapton 16K, if I choose to use it, will get me where I need to go quickly- actually scary quick. The edge sometimes needs to be smoothed out a bit more (by a super finisher or strop) but after the 16K it will be very sharp.

To be honest, the reasons I chose to go with the shapton pro 15k rather than the shapton 16k glass are:

1. The glass stone's surface moved about too much - it undulated in some spots one day and was raised in those areas the next day, even if I lapped it after use. I spent a lot of time lapping it.
2. Because I spent so much time lapping, I wanted a stone that was easier to lap (not as hard) and which did not 'move' as much as the 16k... the 15k is a little softer and does not 'move' much.
3. I use slurry (horrors!) and the 15k is much thicker than the 16k.

My decision really had little to do with the edge left by either hone.

Regards,
Neil

Ah, the wonderful world of the mid-range stones. Either of the stones you listed would be good as a pre-polisher, but there are lots of other options out there. You can always skip this range, but I find I need to spend less time on the higher-grit stones if I've laid down a good 6K finish. The 5-6K range is also a good off-ramp for heading off to natural finishers.

If you're happy with the Kitayama 8K, why not consider the Arashiyama 6K? Both Imanishi stones, and they're fairly complementary, since they're both made from natural stone particles in a binder, and they have the same indeterminacy in their grit ratings. The Arashiyama is also known as the Takenoko 8000 and can sometimes be found cheaper under this name.

If you like the feel of the Chosera line, there is the Yellow Penguin 6K from JWW. I've had one of these for a couple of years and it's very good. It's a Naniwa, polishes slightly better than the Chosera 5K and runs about $85.

If you've used and like the Naniwa Snow White 8K, the Suehiro 'Shiramina' 6K is similar in feel. In the US, it goes under the mellifluous name of 'Steelex D1070'. It's slow to dry out for storage, but otherwise good. I parked mine, upside down, in the sun for a while to melt the

If you happen to have a Norton 8K lying around (as so many of us do) then - surprise - you already have a mid-range pre-polisher. At 3 microns, it fits in just shy of 5K JIS mark. The Shapton Glass 6K is 2.45 microns and the Chosera 5K is about 2.8. You can use the Norton and then move on to a real 8K. Or the Kitayama, which is anywhere from 8-12K depending on who you ask.

I've tried a bunch of stones in the 5-6K JIS range, and my favorites are the Naniwa/Penguin/whatever 6K and the MG70, a gray magnesia stone that goes under a lot of names. The only stone in the range that I dislike is the King Ice Bear 6K, which just feels wrong to me. Not sure why, but I don't like the feel of the thing. The scratch pattern is very much in line with all the other 6K stones I've tried, though, and other people seem to like it.

I've got a Suehiro 'Rika' (supposedly a 5K, some controversy there) and a Sigma Power 6K on order, so my exploration of this grit range is far from over. So far, I haven't found a stone that didn't work.

Originally Posted by ridnovir

I love my choseras I find that 16K shapton sometimes dulls the edge.

Does the 16k dull the edge or do you dull the edge with the 16k ? . Is your 8k edge already shaving well ?

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Does the 16k dull the edge or do you dull the edge with the 16k ? . Is your 8k edge already shaving well ?

After Kitayama it passes hht with ease. After 16k shapton the hht is noticeably difficult the edge comes back on 1m Diamond on Balsa though and gets even better on CrOX on balsa and 0.25m Dimanod on Balsa. I suspect that i spend way too m much time on 16k I will try fewer strokes next time.

Looks like my progression is fine an mid range stone is not necessary. Might end up with Chosera 5k after although Arashiyama 6K or Penguin 6K are two stones that I will consider as well (sadly I cannot find much info on these).

The Kitayama doesn't know it's not a jnat. Depending on your technique, and the length of time you spend on the stone, it's possible that you're actually going up in grit when you get to the Shapton, effectively dulling the edge. The Kitayama has friable particles, so you're creating a finer and finer grit the longer you work the slurry. There are those who use the stone as an 8K with a slurry, then move to a 10K while the slurry dries out a bit on the K, then back to the K for a finish that feels a lot like 12K. Or you can stay on the K and gradually shove most of the slurry off the ends, ending with light strokes on a damp (but not dry) stone.

You're applying three different treatments to the blade in a very small window from 1.2 microns (nominal 8K JIS) to .92, and given the variance in actual particle size, pressure, sunspots, etc, it's possible for any of the latter steps to eliminate the work done by the previous ones.

If you're up for some experimenting, try deleting the 1m spray and the Shapton from your progression. Build a slurry on the K with a diamond plate, hone normally past the stiction phase, then start diluting the slurry and lightening your strokes. Continue until the stone is nearly dry, then strop and see what you've got. You might want to use the .25 diamond afterward, but it may not be necessary. I did this today with a pretty dull blade and was impressed with the results.