Thread: What's you pattern for eBay specials? (Crap to SHARP³)

Originally Posted by xman

NO!

This is NOT the Rolling Hone and can't be recommended. This will overhone your toes and excessively wear the tip down.

The Rolling Hone IS (while keeping the heel leading throughout the whole honing stroke) to change the vertical configuration gently and gradually. Begin the honing stroke with the heel in good contact with the hone and slowly, gradually roll the main point of contact along the edge to the tip so that at the beginning of the stroke the tip is almost (or actually, depending on blade geometry) off the hone by a millimitre, and then at the end of the hone the heel is almost (or actually) off the hone by a milimetre. This motion is essential for smiling blades, but in my experiencer benefits "flat" edges as well (because nothing is truly flat). I have the best success by not overshooting the ends and instead trying to keep the heel and toe well supported by much of the middle of the edge at those extremes. I also draw a very slight X motion only bringing about ¼ or ⅕ of the heel off the hone throughout the stroke. I believe this works to even out the pressure along the edge. Since the heel is very near my one hand honing and the toe far away, the heel gets more pressure whether it wants it or not. By puling it off the hone I can reach that pressure up the hone and get the tip as evenly keen as the heel.

It took me a long time to understand this. Mparker and a couple other guys finally got a good grip on both my shoulders and, heaving in unison, managed to pull my head out of my ass.

Or most of it anyway. The little part I still don't get is, is it possible to do a "zero pressure" or even "negative pressure" stroke using the rolling-hone method? Negative pressure seems out of the question, since (as I understand it) it's predicated on the suction effect of having a whole blade in contact with the hone. As far as zero pressure... it seems unless you've got the muscle coordination of a precision laboratory instrument, you're gonna have to use some pressure with the rock 'n roll. No?

I was trying it out on my one smiley, and I sure felt like I had to use a lot of pressure.

I find the razor has weight and needs the same sense of ultra light pressure to the end of the honingpyramid. With the smiling blades less of the edge is in contact so it gets more effect from this method requiring roughly the same pressure as a 'flat' blade. Since it's just a transfer of pressure with flat blades I still often experience the sucking action of the water called 'negative' pressure. I guess I'm saying all that stuff still aplies.

X

Originally Posted by dylandog

The little part I still don't get is, is it possible to do a "zero pressure" or even "negative pressure" stroke using the rolling-hone method?

Sure. I actually find it easier to do it with a smiling blade than with a straight blade, because it's less sensitive to wobbliness.

I hold my razor by the middle of the scales and arc my hand up or down as I slide the razor down the hone. Do the same thing coming back. Because I don't have to worry about keeping the razor flat on the hone this is a trivial maneuver to pull off, you just need reasonably snug scales. I do the same thing with my straight blades, I just have to be a lot more precise.

For "negative pressure" I do the same thing, I just set the scales so they're slightly behind the spine to help counterbalance the razor's weight. That's a lot easier than trying to maintain constant milligram-centimeter levels of torque on the shank while simultaneously doing all the other things right too.

X,

Maybe it's because I haven't seen how this is supposed to work in person, but what you were describing seemed to be the same as what I was trying to describe.

Help me out here--does the angle of the blade (in other words, the toe-to-heel angle, NOT the angle of the edge vs. the surface of the hone) change at all during your stroke?

What I'm not getting is how you change the point of contact without slightly changing the relative positions of the toe and heel.

I have managed to hone smiling blades without any difficulty; maybe I'm just not describing it well.

Josh

X,

After carefully rereading your post, I think I get it. Is the main thing I have wrong the part about having the tip leading at the end of the stroke?

So you start with the heel leading, and end with the heel leading, but the angle is less drastic at the end than it was at the beginning?

As I think about it, I don't actually do what I was describing. My variation on this method is to add a rolling motion to the X-stroke, ending with about 1/3 of the blade on the hone. If I'm really having trouble with the very tip of the toe, I'll sometimes bring even more of the blade off the hone, but you have to be really careful with that...

I'm going to try to mock up a graphic to see if I'm understanding you correctly.

Josh

Originally Posted by JoshEarl

After carefully rereading your post, I think I get it. Is the main thing I have wrong the part about having the tip leading at the end of the stroke?

Yes.

Originally Posted by JoshEarl

So you start with the heel leading, and end with the heel leading, but the angle is less drastic at the end than it was at the beginning?

No. The angle is the same.

Think of it this way, although a disclaimer must be issued that what I'm describing will sound too drastic for actual honing. Rather than have the blade at a perfectly horizontal axis, tip the tip of the blade up at the begining above the stone, and roll the tip down throughout the stroke so the heel is tilted up and off the hone at the end. Or, one could say lift the heel up throughout the stroke.

X

Oooohhhhhh... I think I'm following you now. So the entire spine isn't flat along the stone during the stroke, but parts of it are slightly raised?

I'm having a hard time visualizing how you can alter the point of contact without changing the blade angle or using an X-stroke.

This graphic represents how I hone a smiling blade. I keep the spine flat throughout the stroke. Do you think this will overhone the blade? I'm not sure why it would...

Thanks for clarifying this--good discussion.

Josh

If it's a smiling blade and you're using the actual Rolling Hone technique it shouldn't increase the amount that the tip gets honed since different parts of the blade are on the hone for approximately the same amounrt of time. Just the angle of the striations would change on the blade, which is still something I'd recommend against. If it's a 'flat' edge, I think you'll be over honing.

The "Contact Zone" you identify is about right, but that's NOT my technique where you pust the tip forward.

Another disclaimer. honing is rightly considered an art form and each artist finds his own way.

X

X,

I edited the graphic so it doesn't claim to represent your techique.

I'm going to grab a smiling blade tonight and see if I can figure out how your approach works. I understand it in theory, I think, but just can't see how the motion goes. Maybe next time I try to describe it I'll get it right...

I see what you mean about overhoning a flat blade, but I'm not sure I agree. I have a 3-inch Norton, so the tip is basically on the hone for the entire stroke. (I know, I know, this is an entirely different discussion...) Somehow my stroke compensates for this because I'm able to get even edges on straight blades.

So it seems like the approach I put in the graphic is some kind of hybrid--does that mean I get to come up with my own cool name for it?

I'm going to go sit at the back of the classroom now...

Josh

Wll, I can't remember who coined the term Rolling Hone first, but it wasn't me. I think Nenad actually came up with an amazingly clear graphic of it.





You can zoom in for better view here.

X