Thread: Newbie - made a major mistake... Major!

John

I should thank you for bringing up using a belt sander for sharpening, as it turns out, knives. I had visions of the belt sander commonly used for woodworking. Having done a little research because of this thread I just may have to get one of those little sanders for use with knives.

Bob

Originally Posted by BobH

John

I should thank you for bringing up using a belt sander for sharpening, as it turns out, knives. I had visions of the belt sander commonly used for woodworking. Having done a little research because of this thread I just may have to get one of those little sanders for use with knives.

Bob

This is a great little unit to start with for knives - you can shave arm hair quite well with an 800->1000->3000->leather with diamond paste and it only takes minutes... I love a sharp knife!

Knife-Sharpening-System

-john

Thanks for the link, I've book marked it.

Bob

So after many hours of honing and learning by practice I finally got my thiers issard back to shave ready condition. Basically did the circle honing technique as discribed in Lynn's videos. The edge catches hair and snaps it off on the hanging hair test and cuts hairs midway on my leg (all my arm hair is gone from testing!). The 12k stone was key I think as was diamond paste on my suede stropping board plus lots and lots of stropping on leather. Thanks for all the help - will update when I shave with it next!

-john

time spent on getting an even and well set bevel is paramount to a good edge. Its like the foundation that you build on as you progress through the grits. If you go on the 1k until you can shave and then start moving up you will have to work less at it. That is the basic starting point.

I think the most valuable thing about this thread is that it demonstrates the value of the library (Wiki) and asking questions BEFORE going all renegade and doing something, ummm, unusual.

Also, the comment about 'most' people not taping the spine is possibly not quite correct, though I haven't done a survey

I myself see little reason to NOT tape the spine, why would I want any spine wear whatsover if I can negate it almost completely?

Also, just in case there is a newbie that stumbles across this, I would like to say SMALL little steps are always best. I read a lot of posts here where guys get a razor, use it once or twice, decide it's not up to scratch, and then dive in head first and start resetting bevels and doing hours and hours of circles. Not a BAD way to while away a lazy Saturday, but most times they'd find 10 to 20 light laps on something like a Shapton 16k would be all that's needed. I'd start with just 10 on a Shapton 15k BTW. I only use 20 to refresh my harder Swedish razors.

Just my opinion. I AM glad it worked out OK in the end for you John!

Carl

Originally Posted by carlmaloschneider

I think the most valuable thing about this thread is that it demonstrates the value of the library (Wiki) and asking questions BEFORE going all renegade and doing something, ummm, unusual.

Also, the comment about 'most' people not taping the spine is possibly not quite correct, though I haven't done a survey

I myself see little reason to NOT tape the spine, why would I want any spine wear whatsover if I can negate it almost completely?

Also, just in case there is a newbie that stumbles across this, I would like to say SMALL little steps are always best. I read a lot of posts here where guys get a razor, use it once or twice, decide it's not up to scratch, and then dive in head first and start resetting bevels and doing hours and hours of circles. Not a BAD way to while away a lazy Saturday, but most times they'd find 10 to 20 light laps on something like a Shapton 16k would be all that's needed. I'd start with just 10 on a Shapton 15k BTW. I only use 20 to refresh my harder Swedish razors.

Just my opinion. I AM glad it worked out OK in the end for you John!

Carl

Hi Carl,

Thanks for the response. I did dive into sharpening my expensive razor without doing any research. I sharpen knives a lot and the dedicated belt sander that I use is the best way to do it. I test my knives by seeing if they'll shave hair off my arm. I was impulsive diving into trying to sharpen a straight razor with that machine. I barely touched the razor on the 3000 grit belt and totally ruined the bevel making it convex instead of a true straight razor bevel.

That said, I've recovered the edge with lots of work and considerable wear on the edge and spine. I didn't tape because Lynn stated in his videos that he seldom tapes his razors. In retrospect, with the amount of correction I needed to do, taping would have been the way to go. Lesson learned. Now I know the basics of honing and am getting proficient at it - just wish I didn't ruin a brand new high end razor for lack of knowledge.

If you tape a spine I would think your bevel would constantly change with the fast wear of the tape compared to the wear of the edge - isn't there some degree of chasing a moving target with taping? I'd like to know the answer to this question because I'll tape from now on if it's the best way to go?

On an aside, I got a brand new dovo razor that was not shave ready from the factory? Is this normal? I stripped the razor and still could not get a perfect HHT? How should I proceed?

TIA

john

Originally Posted by ocelot27

If you tape a spine I would think your bevel would constantly change with the fast wear of the tape compared to the wear of the edge - isn't there some degree of chasing a moving target with taping?
Yes there is & this is why people change out the tape regularly. I find it bothersome & don't use tape, others find it no inconvenience at all.
I'd like to know the answer to this question because I'll tape from now on if it's the best way to go?
Tape is a good idea for newbs who may be heavy handed on spines but otherwise it comes down to personal preference. The most experienced either use it or not . No hard & fast rules, just personal beliefs.

On an aside, I got a brand new dovo razor that was not shave ready from the factory? Is this normal?
Very common.

I stripped the razor and still could not get a perfect HHT? How should I proceed?
The HHT is not a guarantee of a nice shave but basically you have to assess the bevel & do what's needed. I use magnification to compare my honing scratches to the factory's. I'll start at 12k to compare. Look for areas of no contact to see if more bevel work is needed.
Dunno what other guys do.

~~~~~~~~~~

Originally Posted by ocelot27

Hi Carl,

Thanks for the response. I did dive into sharpening my expensive razor without doing any research. I sharpen knives a lot and the dedicated belt sander that I use is the best way to do it. I test my knives by seeing if they'll shave hair off my arm. I was impulsive diving into trying to sharpen a straight razor with that machine. I barely touched the razor on the 3000 grit belt and totally ruined the bevel making it convex instead of a true straight razor bevel.

That said, I've recovered the edge with lots of work and considerable wear on the edge and spine. I didn't tape because Lynn stated in his videos that he seldom tapes his razors. In retrospect, with the amount of correction I needed to do, taping would have been the way to go. Lesson learned. Now I know the basics of honing and am getting proficient at it - just wish I didn't ruin a brand new high end razor for lack of knowledge.

If you tape a spine I would think your bevel would constantly change with the fast wear of the tape compared to the wear of the edge - isn't there some degree of chasing a moving target with taping? I'd like to know the answer to this question because I'll tape from now on if it's the best way to go?

On an aside, I got a brand new dovo razor that was not shave ready from the factory? Is this normal? I stripped the razor and still could not get a perfect HHT? How should I proceed?

TIA

john

Oz knows a lot more about this than I, but I think the amount of tape being worn is possibly very small and inconsequential IF you're just refreshing an edge. If you're setting a bevel, and doing lots of circles, etc, then yes, the tape does wear quite quickly and yes, you do need to change it often. I find for the few laps I generally do on the Shapton 16k to refresh an edge it hardly matters.

I just don't even want scratches on my spines. I honed a Bengall wedge a while ago and decided not to tape the spine. Big mistake. I WAY over did the honing, forgetting how soft the steel was in comparison to some of my razors and created a LOT of hone wear. I was mortified!

I think MOST factory razors aren't truly shave ready, some are sold with a free honing included. Best to buy from such an outlet. I've never bought a new razor; though I guess the one from the Revisor site (a NOS razor) was new. That came shave ready for sure. the rest have been vintage razors; most from here. The last lot I needed to hone but they were easy.

I'm not being picky but you mean 'stropped' don't you? I wonder how your stropping technique is?

I myself don't ever do the HHT, I think it's silly, unless I'm honing a razor so I can cut hanging hairs. I shave leg hair as a test and use the Thumb Pad Test (TPT). I want to be able to 'pop' leg hairs before the final laps on the Shapton (moving from the 8k Norton if I've gone 'back' that far. I also look at the edge with an old magnifying glass. Those are the only tests I do before I test shave my face. Shaving my face tells me if it's OK or not. Sometimes I need a bit more on the Shapton.

In regards to proceeding with the Dovo, it depends I guess what you have available. I guess I could have a look back through all the pages here; but it's easier for me to just ask if you have hones at all and what they are. If it were mine, with the (only two) hones I have, I'd tape the spine and give it ten on my Shapton 16k.

Many people advice guys to send their razors out when they're new to this, but I have never had anyone hone any of my razors; I guess I'm a bit stubborn and want to be self sufficient. I am a real klutz when it comes to using tools and stuff, really I am, but I found honing quite easy really. That's not to say I haven't had battles with some difficult razors, but I've kept all my razors in shave ready condition for over two years.

BTW, use a honing journal. Write down what you did and when. This will allow you too see what works, but, also, it allows you to give good advice later on, as you know EXACTLY what you did; how often you hone, etc without guessing.

Originally Posted by carlmaloschneider

Oz knows a lot more about this than I, but I think the amount of tape being worn is possibly very small and inconsequential IF you're just refreshing an edge. If you're setting a bevel, and doing lots of circles, etc, then yes, the tape does wear quite quickly and yes, you do need to change it often. I find for the few laps I generally do on the Shapton 16k to refresh an edge it hardly matters.

I just don't even want scratches on my spines. I honed a Bengall wedge a while ago and decided not to tape the spine. Big mistake. I WAY over did the honing, forgetting how soft the steel was in comparison to some of my razors and created a LOT of hone wear. I was mortified!

I think MOST factory razors aren't truly shave ready, some are sold with a free honing included. Best to buy from such an outlet. I've never bought a new razor; though I guess the one from the Revisor site (a NOS razor) was new. That came shave ready for sure. the rest have been vintage razors; most from here. The last lot I needed to hone but they were easy.

I'm not being picky but you mean 'stropped' don't you? I wonder how your stropping technique is?

I myself don't ever do the HHT, I think it's silly, unless I'm honing a razor so I can cut hanging hairs. I shave leg hair as a test and use the Thumb Pad Test (TPT). I want to be able to 'pop' leg hairs before the final laps on the Shapton (moving from the 8k Norton if I've gone 'back' that far. I also look at the edge with an old magnifying glass. Those are the only tests I do before I test shave my face. Shaving my face tells me if it's OK or not. Sometimes I need a bit more on the Shapton.

In regards to proceeding with the Dovo, it depends I guess what you have available. I guess I could have a look back through all the pages here; but it's easier for me to just ask if you have hones at all and what they are. If it were mine, with the (only two) hones I have, I'd tape the spine and give it ten on my Shapton 16k.

Many people advice guys to send their razors out when they're new to this, but I have never had anyone hone any of my razors; I guess I'm a bit stubborn and want to be self sufficient. I am a real klutz when it comes to using tools and stuff, really I am, but I found honing quite easy really. That's not to say I haven't had battles with some difficult razors, but I've kept all my razors in shave ready condition for over two years.

BTW, use a honing journal. Write down what you did and when. This will allow you too see what works, but, also, it allows you to give good advice later on, as you know EXACTLY what you did; how often you hone, etc without guessing.

The spell checker in my iPad changed stropping to "stripping" - annoying.

I have the norton 4k/8k and a 12k - waiting to get my 20k from Japan.

I too like to be self sufficient and I love this because its a challenge for me. I'm a skin surgeon by day so I'm pretty good with my hands - doesn't mean i know what I'm doing with this stuff though.

I'm pretty sure my stropping technique is good as it always has a positive effect on the edge. I have CrO on the reverse side of my canvas for touch ups and as a final homing step befor I move to the naked canvas and then the leather.

Just ordered a kangaroo leather strop too - nice to have mor than one to try out dilfferenT things while you're learning.

Thanks for the advice - will start taking notes!

John