What grit hones do you use to sharpen your pocket/fixed blade knives?
Do you have any recommended procedures?
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What grit hones do you use to sharpen your pocket/fixed blade knives?
Do you have any recommended procedures?
I have a Lansky System with diamond hones so they are in mesh which is a bit different. Around 600 mesh as a fine finisher and 325 for medium..
I've used a Edge-Pro that I have enjoyed for a couple years.
I have Stones ranging from 120 all the way up to 10k.
Nowadays I tend to freehand all my knives though.
On my kitchen knives I will go as high as on my razors, but you really don't need that.
A 2-3K finish would work just fine for most tasks.
On my folders I tend to go to about 5k, with a couple exceptions that I take higher.
Common for all of them is stropping.
that's how I maintain my all my knives edges between honing.
I'm no fan of rods, be it steel, diamond or boro-silicate ones.
For my small buck folder that I carry I just sharpen freehand on a shapton 1k.
For my kitchen knives I use an angle cube then Sharpen freehand. Ive been finishing on norton hard Arkansas for both my euro knives and my takeda AS. Then I strop on balsa with .5 diamond.
The angle cube is really great for getting a really consistent angle while freehand sharpening.
Also, just like razors, it's best to get most of the work done on your rough stone.
Michael.
I carry Smith's Pocket Pal for my pocket knife. It keeps my blade nice and sharp at all times.
I also hand sharpen my kitchen knives: 1K waterstone for sharpening, 6K waterstone for polishing.
Just for general information, I visited Kitchen Knives - Sharpening Services - Corrado Cutlery looking for knife sharpening info and found that razor honing is also available there by Nathan Zowada, Tim's son.
Interesting.
I usually use a set of DMTs (120 grit up to 8000), then I jump over to my compounds and go up to 14000 (for my customs).
It really depends on the steels you are working with. I like some of the modern steels and sharpening is a hobby/business for me;)
Thanks for the useful info. I'ved used a couple of Arkansas stones in the past but i have no idea about the grit on those. Now it's time to get to work on all my neglected knife blades. Thx again.
I also need to mention that I am now shaving with a couple of my razors that I've honed on my own thanks to the advice and many articles you have provided. Was just wondering....how hard could it be to make soap, hehe.
I don't have any really nice blades for the kitchen or for carry, just good steel ones. In my kitchen I use a Wusthof set, for my pocket knives it's Case. I like diamonds for both to 1K. At one time I would keep them ultra-keen, but the wife is ultra-rough on edges in the kitchen & a 1K diamond edge is a happy medium for my household.
Notice that all the responders do something different; there are many roads to sharp. Lately, I have been setting bevels on knives with my DMT 325 and my old/fine Smith diamond hone. Then, depending on the blade, I use a very long/big hone I call "the airport runway" to start doing sets of circles, Japanese-style back and forths, and x-strokes on heavy slurry (just depending on what the blade tells me is working, no real system), gradually diluting and lightening pressure as I go, then finishing up with light x-strokes. This hone, whatever mystery stone it is, is giving me the best knife edges I've ever had:
Attachment 137650
I'll follow that up with 30-50 brisk back-strokes on a CrOx linen strop to get wicked sharp edges!
On my kitchen knives a light touch up on a Jnat is all that's usually needed... on friends knives on the other hand, I tend to need to start out on the DMTs/Tormek/Plastic Explosives to get them in any knife like shape before the sharpening begins.
Is a 30 degree angle what I need to maintain when freehanding?
I would aim closer to 20 degrees. While a 30 degree angle will give you an edge that lasts longer, it will not be as sharp as you can get at around 20 degrees. Cheap kitchen knives that are as thick just above the edge as they are at the spine will likely need around 30 degrees, otherwise it may not hold its edge at all and become brittle.
Aim for 20 degrees as stated above, as an average. No more than 25 though. I use a Lansky system for ease, and I keep my knives touched up with a fine Steel before each use.
Mick
It is (perhaps) a good idea to clarify the angles as per side or as an inclusive apex angle.
I find that you need a pretty good knife to retain an edge below 30 degrees inclusive, particularly for a kitchen knife that tend to get banged into the cutting board a lot during chopping. Even my German knives seem happier at 30+ inclusive.
For the knives I carry, 20 inclusive. (They are fairly high end steels with great heat treat)
YMMV
I would have thought it to be obvious. Any good knife sharpening instruction will tell you to go and cut a wedge to the required angle, in this case 20 degree's, and use it to help keep the knife at the required angle on he stone, until you get the feel for it and can do away with this crutch. So it would appear obvious that it is 20 degrees a side.
Sorry for any confusion to the OP.
Mick
TL;DR: you may not need very fine stones, HAD is fun, how you sharpen may depend on what you are doing with the blade.
i've never understood how those wedges would be of much help in maintaining an angle when honing a knife when the wedge is not as long as the knife nor does it follow the curve of the knife.. i roughly understand how jigs work for maintaining an angle on a blade for a hand plane..
i start at a lower angle on my coarser stones when essentially bevel setting or reshaping the bevel, and as i move up in grit i allow for a slightly higher angle.. when finishing i still aim for a slightly lower angle most of the time as any variance in the stroke will end up with some strokes at a higher angle anyways so you will still hone the edge but not increase the angle too much.. Grind - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia this produces a convex grind and although once you have set/shaped the bevel most work in maintaining the blade will simply be honing the edge and at some point the actual bevel at the edge will grow wider and working the side of the bevel higher up to thin the blade (possibly with a coarser stone) may be helpful in making it easy to maintain the edge on whatever stone you chose to finish with..
having read some articles on knife honing one school of thought is hone a blade withe the coarsest grit that will do the job, as the microserrations will keep the knife sharp longer.. so it depends on what the knife is being used for.. if the knife is being used for slicing rather than push cutting some serrations seem like a good thing.. razors can be thought of as mostly push cutting, although angling the blade for a guillotine stroke is like a slicing motion, and the scythe stroke that i've never figured out seems even more like a slicing motion.. one thing to keep in mind, for many folks who regularly use knives a 1k stone is a finisher..
i'm still learning about sharpening, but at the moment i find for most kitchen knife usages that 8k may be higher than you need.
i have what i think is a hard ark that i've lapped with loose lapping grit, one side coarse and one side very polished.. it seems to work well, and being a hard ark you can hone with pressure without wearing out the stone or gouging it, just don't roll your edge with too much pressure..
i also have a cretan hone which i am told is also another form of novaculite, in this case microcrystaline and cryptocrystaline quartz if i recall correctly.. they say with slurry it cuts like a 1k, and with plain water cuts more like a 6k.. i'm not sure about that, but it is a hard stone and seems to be a good balance of fine enough for a fine edge, and coarse enough to have some bite to the edge without being totally polished.
i find i prefer a harder stone for knives for the most part.. a barber hone can work well for knives, some are dual grit and depending on the stone the coarser side may be coarse enough to get a blade back into shape that hasn't been sharpened in a while, or may provide you with a coarser edge than the finishing side will if you so choose..
so, after all this rambling, what stones and knives do you have, and what do you use them for?
I have various knives used in any imaginable way. Steak, paring, skinning, gutting, filet, carving and all around use pocket knives.
As far as hones n stones I have the set i use on my razors, Norton 220/1000, 4000/8000 and a 12,000 finisher along with a DMT 325. I also have a set of Arkansas stones, 1 med (soft) and 1 fine (hard).
I was considering buying a new dedicated set just for my knives.
i think you have all the stones you need to sharpen a knife, and if you dont want to lap your razor hones after sharpening your knives i'd say learn to use your dmt325 and your arks..
I carry two folders on me at all times. One is a vintage style case with the exposed tang. The other is a folding Tanto. Both see a lot of use and I keep them ready. I use a soft Arkansas stone them move to a hard Arkansas to finish honing. I then work them on a old belt to take care of the burr. I do the same on my fixed blades including my set of Dexter Russells in the kitchen. This has never failed to leave me with a blade that slides thru arm hair( the wife hates it when I do that) 0r a peice of paper). I want and get a very sharp knife. The edge on a knife is for working not shaving. I do not want too delicate of a edge. It is to easy to damage with utility work/abuse.IMO
I think i'll stick with my Arky's for a while and go with Edge-Pro on my Christmas list, although my wife is anti-HAD, anti-RAD and so on. I told her my children could buy it for me due to their undying devotion to me, hehe, that went over good. I will say that the Arkansas stones have work fine for me up to this point, I would just like to be a little more precise with my work from this point on.
I am entertaining a Edge-Pro myself, I have a Lansky type system that works well for my customers custom knives...it leaves a nice even bevel, but I don't like just doing one side at a time. I freehand my personal stuff.
I must admit, aside from free handing these days, I hold the same opinion as you Shooter.
Mick
I use an Edge Pro. 120, 220. 320, and 600 grit stones. The 120 is mostly for reprofiling. If you want hair splitting edges you can go to the polishing PSA tapes.
Recently picked up 2 trans arks. 1 6x2 and 1 4x2. Been using on work and kitchen knives and strop on alumina oxide and never been sharper. Had to stop testing on arms as taking off to much hair. Now only need to stop swmbo from cutting on hard surfaces and killing edges. No respect:banghead:
Same here, I think it's in their DNA...
I have a question... can I use the same hones I use for my razors to hone my knives?
Geek
Yes but you would need to lap flat again before using on razors again. Most tend to keep their hones for razors only.
I use my Shaptons for razors and other knives and lap them shortly after every use. Those Shaptons are too good and too expensive for me to use only on razors!
LOL. We have now entered into another of my Ad's!!! KAD!!! I am a huge fan of the Wicked edge knife sharpening system. I run mine down to 0.0125 micron diamond spray. I just re profiled my new Zero Tolerance Rexford 0801 Flipper Titanium in Elmax steel at a 15 degree bevel. Talk about an awesome edge!!! This is my first knife with Elmax and the ZT heat treat is Extremely hard. It took almost an hour to complete. For reference I have a Benchmade mini grip that I did in 15 min. Still a fantastic edge on the CM154 but I have to think the Elmax will hold an edge longer.
I have heard great things about the edge pro but for me, I like being able to do both edges at the same time with out having to move the blade. Attachment 140817
I also freehand on a 140, 325 & 600 diamond plates to get an edge in shape, a Norton 1K for maintenance and Arks to polish.
I too have an edge pro… and other systems and rarely use them.
Usage does matter, for my wife who is HARD on edges, a polished 1K edge is plenty good. I buy her good knives… and she treats them like… tools. When the stones are out her favorites get some laps. She can cook though.
A separate stone set for knives, will make your life easier.
I once used a Lansky system (rod guide system) from an estate sale.
It was fool proof and fast. I gave it to my mother in law in hopes that she might actually sharpen her knives.
Her knives stink they are so dull. Actually, the "name brand" knives she had stink in that I could not get them sharp to my satisfaction. I gave her a knife that would take a good edge. I would use the stones dry, and clean them from time to time with scouring powder & water. Usually, I would start on the finest setting with the coarsest stone. After than, the next finest angle with the next coarsest stone....etc. I found that was a fast way to go. Course/med/fine - done.
After giving the Lansky set away, I switched to a 4 sided diamond block ($10 bucks at Harbor Freight a few years back, with inflation, perhaps $15 now). The sides are labeled 200 through 600. I used the 200 setting to round the edges on a barber's hone that I have (got that idea from the forums here). The 200 diamond plat grinds through barber hones fast.
The first time I sharpen a knife, if that knife has a larger angle than I naturally hold, then it takes a while on the 200 side. Then I finish off at 600. It has worked well for me. My wife's kitchen knives were the first knives I ever sharpened that had a finer angle than I naturally hold. They are German knives - and they work about as well as the cheap ones they replaces (but she liked the heft and the grips of the high dollar German knives).
If I can raise a burr, then that is what I do. I sharpen one side until I feel the burr all along the edge. Then I sharpen the other side (until I feel the burr, all along the edge). Then back and forth to remove the burr.
It seems that if your knife has a really hard steel, then it may not take a burr (I think my '70's kbar lock black is in that category - really hard steel - and I can only sharpen it on a diamond hone).