Thread: Norton 8K

Mike

Sounds like you have a baseline and are at least happy with edges you have produced. Moving to natural finishers is more difficult, than say a 12K SuperStone edge and can cause you to chase the elusive finest edge, like so many of us.

First let me qualify that “Hair Test are over rated and not a definitive test.” Why? Because all of us have different hair. What I do is at 1K, once I feel the bevel is sharp, based on how it feels on the stone, how the edge feel on the thumb pad and looking at the edge under magnification.

Take the spine rest it on your arm, rotate the edge about 3/8 to ½ inches off the skin and move the blade against your arm hair at the top of the hair. I am looking for the edge to grab a hair. Do this at 4 different points on the edge, beginning near the tip, then move in ¾ of an inch, ¾ inch more then near the heel. You should be grabbing hair or cutting them all across the edge.

The bevel is set, both sides of the bevel meet at an even point across the entire edge, it is sharp, now begins the polishing. I do some extra weight of blade laps, 10-15. At this stage edge is sharp and I am beginning the polishing process.

When you honed the bevel the grit on the stone created a series of mountains and valleys, lands and grooves. If you were to shave with this edge the land peaks would dig into you skin, you would cut hair, but also cut skin. Perhaps not enough to draw blood but it will be uncomfortable.

The goal of polishing is to reduce the height of the land, tops while maintaining and enhancing the edge keenness. So we use a progression of stones and possibly paste to polish the height of the lands as close to the groove. With synthetics this is not too difficult, if you introduce a Natural stone you do not know exactly where the Natural stone fits into the progression. Natural stones cannot be rated because they are made naturally, not under controlled condition. While most of the grit may be X grit there may be other grits included. Remember rocks are created by wind, water and time,(thousands of years). Just one single courser grit can affect the honing results.

So introducing a Natural may subvert you synthetic progression. Only by experimenting will you know where your particular Natural will fit in your progression. It may very well be less that your 8K. Add to that the different quality or type of stones. Coticules are frangible stone that the grit of slurry breaks down to a finer grit, creating more polish. Other stones like the C12K do not or not to the extent of a Coticule.

Lapping a hard stone like a C12K is labor intensive because of the hardness it is also the quality that may make a good finisher. First draw a pencil grid and lap on a piece of wet and dry or a stone to check for flatness. The goal is to smooth the stone face, it does not have to be perfectly flat. Smooth is more important than flat. I just want it relatively flat, lose Silicone Carbide grit and or Wet & Dry sand paper with water will get you there, it is messy. I go to 320 then lap with a Hard Arkansas stone with lots of water and Diamond or CBN paste if you have it or use you synthetic progression ending with your highest grit stone with lots of water.

Get the stone as smooth as possible, then burnish the stone face with steel. I like honing 2-3 kitchen knives with pressure. It won’t hurt your knives and will leave a smooth face on your stone.

Try your stone with Smith’s synthetic honing oil (Lowes or Ace Hardware) with water and many laps after your 8K, as many as 100 or more laps. If it is a hard stone 1-200 laps is not unreasonable. You may also experiment with pressure, I find honing with pressure works well with Arkansas Blacks and Translucent for some razors, they are similar in hardness to C12k’s.

By the way Smith’s works well with Coticules, try light pressure and more laps.

For Driftwood

I've been using straights for a long time. Really long time. I attribute my honing success to setting a goal. That goal is being able to get a smooth, comfortable shave from my 8k stone. I don't move up in grit until the blade shaves me with no discomfort whatsoever.

At this point it is time to put the icing on the cake with the 12k and maybe even the 20k if I'm in the mood to decapitate myself or all the way to the Nakayama Maruichi Asagi for the coup de gracie.

Shoot for the comfortable 8k shave before you think about all else.

First off let me thank everyone here, all your advice and opinions are very educating.

So I've decided to narrow my focus on a few things. First the next razor that touches my 1K won't leave it until it cuts/grabs arm hair above skin level. Second, as the finishing stones go I'm going to focus on the Coti. I decided on the Coti because most of you have or have had one and there seems to be a lot of support for that particular stone. I will screw about with the other hones once I get a good grip on the Coti. I will NOT focus on scratch pattern too much but rely on the shave test.

So last night I took a razor that I hadn't been terribly happy with and sat down in front of my Coti. I got a thick slurry and started honing I used the dilution method and did 30 laps then diluted with a single drop of water until I was basically down to water. I then slurries again (to refresh the surface of the stone) rinsed off the slurry and did 100 no pressure laps on water only, plus 80 laps on leather. I will shave test tonight. The edge did feel noticeably keener than before so hopefully I've made some progress (and if not I had a wonderfully relaxing time sitting at the stone, honing is win-win). Ill report back on how the shave went.

Thats the only way to do it. Just remember what got you to your best edge and that process can be repeated then. If everything else is the same. Steel, bevel set etc. Its a slow process as you cant shave 5x a day.

Just saw you have 2 C12Ks. Rub them against each other for final finish then burnish with steel. Should give you a nice smooth face when you get back the C12K.

Give the Smith’s a try on the Coticule and do more laps with just water, Smith’s and light pressure even strokes at the end. 2-3 drops on a wet stone, it’s about 6 bucks at Ace or Lowes.

Recently I gave this advice to another member who was disappointed with his Coticule, he was amazed with the results. He was so stoked on the stuff, I think he’s drinking it now.

I suspect the oil lifts the edge a bit, so it only touches the tips of the grit on the stone and there by polishes the edge. It works great on Coticules and Thüringen stones & is water soluble so it does not damage the stone, washes off.

Some thoughts

http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...-1k-shave.html

http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...on-2012-a.html

http://straightrazorpalace.com/strop...st-2012-a.html


KISS


ps: Smith's Honing Solution rocks,,, after you learn everything above

Try not to get too caught up in the scratch pattern you see and how polished it looks. Sometimes this can be helpful but more helpful is how the razor shaves. I use magnification mainly to make sure my bevel is even and to make sure no microchips are there.

Also, if you are getting a satisfying shave from your 8K with pastes then there is really no need to do anything further. When using more refined grit manmade polishing stones (like a 12 or 16K) you will notice improvement by using essentially the same methods you did on your 8K. But, naturals usually require their own unique methods to extract some gain on your edge. Slurry or water only, more strokes (usually), lighter strokes (most usually), different stoke methods are just some of the changes we tend to make when moving to a natural finisher. There are endless combinations that are effective here. It is fun to experiment and find your unique way to dial in your edge. When you do realize that it is not the only way. It is most fun when you find something that works very well and make it repeatable.

Let me just share what I would try FWIW:

An example experiment might be; (after your 8K)50 very light 45 degree x-strokes on light slurry on your very well lapped Coticule, then 50 of same on water only THEN 10 laps on crox (only 10 so you don't lose that coticule feel), 100 laps leather.

Another experiment would be; (after your 8K) put 1 layer of tape on your razor: Go back to your 8K and put 10 laps on it then repeat above. This would put a very very slight and nearly invisible yet effective microbevel on the edge.

Regarding PHIG's; A good PHIG is good but a bad PHIG is VERY bad and frustrating. When in doubt I opt for the Naniwa 12K. It works every time.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Just saw you have 2 C12Ks. Rub them against each other for final finish then burnish with steel. Should give you a nice smooth face when you get back the C12K.

Give the Smith’s a try on the Coticule and do more laps with just water, Smith’s and light pressure even strokes at the end. 2-3 drops on a wet stone, it’s about 6 bucks at Ace or Lowes.

Recently I gave this advice to another member who was disappointed with his Coticule, he was amazed with the results. He was so stoked on the stuff, I think he’s drinking it now.

I suspect the oil lifts the edge a bit, so it only touches the tips of the grit on the stone and there by polishes the edge. It works great on Coticules and Thüringen stones & is water soluble so it does not damage the stone, washes off.

Just curious. Why do you need to go to all this trouble if the stone is actually a fine grit finisher ?

Mike

Yes, more laps on a smaller narrower stone. The blade is spending much less time on the stone, so you have to do more laps to get the same amount of time on the stone. On a 1.5 stone at least twice the amount of laps

Onimaru

It is just lapping perhaps to a higher level and you only have to do it once. The Chinese stone is a hard stone, when I bought mine a couple of years ago, it was pretty rough and after lapping with a DMT, I was not impressed with the results. So I lapped it as I have with Finishing Arks in a method that has worked for me. I can get an edge from my C12K, but there are better options in my opinion. It is not a stone I would recommend especially to a novice honer.

Many folks seem to have problems with Arks and C12Ks as finishing stones and it could be the face is just too rough and needs lapping to a smoother finish.

As for the Smith’s Honing Solution, I do not know why it works, but with naturals it does work well, it only cost a few dollars.