Thread: Best progression suggestions for Shaptons...

You could try Glen's 3-2-1 method of 3 normal strokes, 2 back-strokes and 1 normal stroke, all at the exact same angle (see his Shapton honing video #3). I'm surprised you didn't suggest it yourself, Glen! But hey, someone else suggesting your method must boost your ego a little

Gentlemen,
I quote Ocelot:"I don't like using CrO on a strop that's why I got the 30K but I'm open to any suggestions from the experts."

I'm not an expert. My finest stone is a Shapton 16K. I have the 30K on my wishlist but this list is quite long and overcrowded with priorities. I wonder if the 30K can replace the Crox fully. Accordingly my conversion table micron/grit and information on the bottle Crox semi paste (Hand American), is 0.5 micron and equal to 50/60K.
So when we finish with 30K and proceed with stropping on plain leather (I assume we do), we make a giant step in the progesssion scheme?
After Crox and before plain leather I strop on paper loaded with 0.25 micron diamond spray (100K) thus deviding the giant step in minor leaps.
Has Ocelot (or any of the others users) ever tried - though he dislikes it - to implement Crox after 30K before finishing on plain leather? And if so, did he conclude that the Crox treatment in his scheme (after 30K) can be passed as redundant?

Joost

Originally Posted by joostmoree

Gentleman,
I quote Ocelot:"I don't like using CrO on a strop that's why I got the 30K but I'm open to any suggestions from the experts."

I'm not an expert. My finest stone is a Shapton 16K. I have the 30K on my wishlist but this list is quite long and overcrowded with priorities. I wonder if the 30K can replace the Crox fully. Accordingly my conversion table micron/grit and information on the bottle Crox semi paste (Hand American), is 0.5 micron and equal to 50/60K.
So when we finish with 30K and proceed with stropping on plain leather (I assume we do), we make a giant step in the progesssion scheme?
After Crox and before plain leather I strop on paper loaded with 0.25 micron diamond spray (100K) thus deviding the giant step in minor leaps.
Has Ocelot (or any of the others users) ever tried - though he dislikes it - to implement Crox after 30K before finishing on plain leather? And if so, did he conclude that the Crox treatment in his scheme (after 30K) can be passed as redundant?

Joost

Well, to me their objective is not always the same.
With that I mean that the 30K is enough in my opinion, as far as polishing goes. More than enough.
But what you can achieve with the pasted varieties, to some extent, is added smoothness and less harshness than what a super fine synth-polisher will leave you with.
Or added keenness when honing to lower grits, or sometimes when using some of the natural finishers.

In my own honing though, if I use the Shapton 30K or the Gokumyo 20K as finishers, I will use a webbed linen strop and plain leather only after that.

My progression is 1K Chosera, 2,4,8,16K followed by a natural finisher (normally y/g Escher). This works every time, with any steel no matter if it's English or American steel. I have found that the 2K is really "special" as mentioned above. I have also found that my 30K gets used VERY little, few razors can handle it. There is also something about following that 16K edge with a natural. I have come to prefer plain old leather on my blades.

Originally Posted by Laurens

You could try Glen's 3-2-1 method of 3 normal strokes, 2 back-strokes and 1 normal stroke, all at the exact same angle (see his Shapton honing video #3). I'm surprised you didn't suggest it yourself, Glen! But hey, someone else suggesting your method must boost your ego a little

Thanks for all the info - really looking for some things to try using my setup though... I'm intrigued by this 3-2-1 method - anyone use this to good effect?

Also, it was suggested that I skip the 16k and go straight to the 30K?

Well now I have some things to try...

Anyone have a link to that video from Glen?

-john

Do not give up on the CrOx. As has been said, it gives a smoothness that a shapton can't give. Even at 30K. I will almost always finish with it for this reason. CrOx on balsa.

Originally Posted by Str8Shooter

Do not give up on the CrOx. As has been said, it gives a smoothness that a shapton can't give. Even at 30K. I will almost always finish with it for this reason. CrOx on balsa.

I'm really looking to improve my cutting edges and will worry about smoothness later - I've wrecked too many great edges on CrO with even just a few strokes.

I don't have a balsa strop but may be worth looking into...

-john

Originally Posted by ocelot27

I'm really looking to improve my cutting edges and will worry about smoothness later - I've wrecked too many great edges on CrO with even just a few strokes.

I don't have a balsa strop but may be worth looking into...

-john

This is where I get confused. If you are using good technique and have done your job correctly on honing, I find it hard to believe you ruined an edge with CrOx. YMMV(your mileage must vary)

Originally Posted by Str8Shooter

This is where I get confused. If you are using good technique and have done your job correctly on honing, I find it hard to believe you ruined an edge with CrOx. YMMV(your mileage must vary)

I have CrO on a webbing strop - not balsa and I haven't seen any improvement using it - and overusing it is a pitfall for me. I prefer keeping my bevels perfect so I can do touch ups using hones rather than CrO. I have to get a balsa strop to see if I can work that into my methods....

-john

Originally Posted by ocelot27

I have CrO on a webbing strop - not balsa and I haven't seen any improvement using it - and overusing it is a pitfall for me. I prefer keeping my bevels perfect so I can do touch ups using hones rather than CrO. I have to get a balsa strop to see if I can work that into my methods....

-john

Now I understand John. Use CrOx on leather, HPF or balsa. You will see much better results. For me, I tried all kinds of progressions and stuck with what works. I run nortons up to 8K then 12K naniwa to 16 and 30K shaptons. Finish with 3-10 passes CrOx on either Leather or balsa. When you find the "sweet spot" it gives a smoothness where your razor glides over the face with zero resistance.
Paul