Thread: Why a Pyramid?

This is something I've wondered about for a long time and I'm finally getting around to asking the question. What is the point of a pyramid? It's been said many time, probably most assertively by Glen, that until you've set the edge, there's little point in moving on ot the next grade. If that's the case, why go from course, to less coure to least course and then back the the course stone again? Unless I'm missing or misinterpreting something (a distinct possibility), it seems self-defeating. Why not just go through one progression of the three stones?

As Lynn has said, in answer to your question, because it works. Setting the bevel is always the preliminary. The hardest thing for the beginning honer, IMO, is knowing when to stop. Once the bevel is set correctly the pyramid goes by the numbers. You count your strokes and work until you get to the end. Test the razor and it is either "there" or it is not. The honer doesn't have to know when to stop, the pyramid tells him by the numbers.

If it is not you go back to a full, or an abbreviated pyramid. Lynn, and others have moved on from the pyramid to the circle technique and that works as well. I pretty much stay with the pyramid. Old dog learns new tricks sometimes, and I do use circles at times, but the pyramid technique has been working for me, so why fix it ?

IMHO the biggest advantage to the Pyramid is the it teaches a newer honista to "Sneak up" on the finest edge, rather than rush at it.. and of course it works and it works well..



One thing that never gets stressed enough and I have just begun to say this more and more..

These systems that you see many of us lay out in print and Vid are really designed to get a person from dull to sharp (pun inserted) they are not the end all be all of honing, they are in general a simple easy process to follow that we have used/learned/taught by sitting across the table from new honistas at the meets.. They are there to help people get to a shave ready edge, after that most people begin to learn their own paths to what works for their face...

Thanks for the replies. I guess you can't argue with what works.

Originally Posted by leadduck

This is something I've wondered about for a long time and I'm finally getting around to asking the question. What is the point of a pyramid? It's been said many time, probably most assertively by Glen, that until you've set the edge, there's little point in moving on ot the next grade. If that's the case, why go from course, to less coure to least course and then back the the course stone again? Unless I'm missing or misinterpreting something (a distinct possibility), it seems self-defeating. Why not just go through one progression of the three stones?

OK, speaking as relative beginner here, one of the big difficulties I see is knowing whether you have the bevel set properly - I've read many a thread where someone can't tell their bevel is bad until they reach a finer grit level and it doesn't improve the edge, so they have to go back anyway. People often end up effectively doing the same thing as pyramids, but in a more haphazard and time-consuming manner.

The pyramid method seems to me to be a way of achieving the same - start coarse, go fine, check the edge, if it's not good go back - but with the minimum amount of wasted time.

I also think it maybe helps keep the bevel-setting stage to an overall minimum. My approach is to not move on from the bevel-setter until I'm really convinced the bevel is good, but I'm sure that leads to my spending more time and removing more steel than is strictly necessary. By doing the "fixed number of strokes, then take it up a grit to check" repetition, do you minimize that?

Originally Posted by Oscroft

OK, speaking as relative beginner here, one of the big difficulties I see is knowing whether you have the bevel set properly - I've read many a thread where someone can't tell their bevel is bad until they reach a finer grit level and it doesn't improve the edge, so they have to go back anyway. People often end up effectively doing the same thing as pyramids, but in a more haphazard and time-consuming manner.

The pyramid method seems to me to be a way of achieving the same - start coarse, go fine, check the edge, if it's not good go back - but with the minimum amount of wasted time.

I also think it maybe helps keep the bevel-setting stage to an overall minimum. My approach is to not move on from the bevel-setter until I'm really convinced the bevel is good, but I'm sure that leads to my spending more time and removing more steel than is strictly necessary. By doing the "fixed number of strokes, then take it up a grit to check" repetition, do you minimize that?

That makes sense to me...I've been thinking as a newbie honer that I can do a lot of damage to my blades in short order if I'm not careful! The pyramid method would keep me in check...if I could follow it religiously.

Originally Posted by Ru4scuba

That makes sense to me...I've been thinking as a newbie honer that I can do a lot of damage to my blades in short order if I'm not careful! The pyramid method would keep me in check...if I could follow it religiously.

This is quoted from our SRP library, by Randydance on setting the bevel ;

"The purpose of the 1000 grit is to remove nicks and straighten/shape an edge. For that you use your eyes and the Thumb Nail Test (TNT), not the Thumb Pad Test (TPT). (see; Sharpness tests explained) The edge should be free of nicks and the bevel should go all the way to the edge. If you are using a hand held microscope then the bevel will appear as one color, if there are two bevels, old and new, then the light reflects off the bevel at different angles and appears as two colors. The scratch pattern should also be uniform for both the length and width of the bevel. When you have that then move on to the 4000, but not before."

The whole article on Alternative Pyramid Approaches can be found here .

Having honed two whole blades, it just felt like I could tell when I could stay on a finer grit after pyramiding. It also felt like more contact was being made with the stone when I went back up to a courser grit, this meant that I could be lighter with slurry to finish off on the courser grit and try to bring down the scratch pattern before definitely moving to the next progression. The sound the blade made was also cleaner and crisper after going to a lower grit in the pyramid and after a while I could tell that the sound was not changing so it was time to move on, this is just how it felt to me.