Thread: Just ordered coticule....

Originally Posted by Lemur

I've got an old very hard Coticule that I will never part with... if you're not trading an Ocelot for it!

+1...Me too!

I have tried over 10 different coticules (patiently, more than once) and found only very little difference in final results. The ratio of newly mined and older ones was about 1:1. I've used them on German, Swedish, English, Japanese and American made razors, old and new, without any major issues. It has taken me some time, with ups and downs, but in the end they all worked very much according to the same principle. I have five now, which is about four too many.

Coticules on water don't do much more but polish the edge, unless you're willing to do literally hundreds of strokes - or you have a self-slurrying stone, but they are really quite rare.

But I understand my experiences don't necessarily mirror those of others.

Originally Posted by Pithor

I have tried over 10 different coticules (patiently, more than once) and found only very little difference in final results. The ratio of newly mined and older ones was about 1:1. I've used them on German, Swedish, English, Japanese and American made razors, old and new, without any major issues. It has taken me some time, with ups and downs, but in the end they all worked very much according to the same principle. I have five now, which is about four too many.

Coticules on water don't do much more but polish the edge, unless you're willing to do literally hundreds of strokes - or you have a self-slurrying stone, but they are really quite rare.

But I understand my experiences don't necessarily mirror those of others.

Actually, my experience mirrors yours quite a bit. I broke down and contacted my old honing mentor and he explained to why I was being so frustrated. I learned to hone on synthetics up to a high "grit" and finished on a natural finisher just like he does. He explained that I have to put it into my mind that I am used to a very refined edge & most (less than 0_%) coticules simply are not finishers, they are polishers. If you have a coticule that improves the shave over a synthetic edge of 8K from the big three, you have a keeper. It's not that coticules are bad to hone with at all, it's that with the means of communication that we have, there are simply better stones available to us if we are pushing honing to where most of our forefathers could have never imagined. Coticules were the cats meow back in the late 1800's-early 1900's as they were among the top finishers available at the time. Lets now fast forward 100 years, a lot as evolved including: shipping, communication, technology, and the such. The coticule has a great place in the honing line up & serves well, its just not the last stone used for most of us.

I've had quite a few coticules come and go, some stayed. IME there have been differences between them. Sometimes subtle and other times not so subtle. I've had a few that were fast and fine, some slow to the point of despair., and some in between.

I've always felt, can't guarantee it, but always felt that if I'm not "getting there" with the stone it is me, not the stone. Where there is ....... is a smooth shave as a result of my honing. Early on I came to the conclusion that no coticule will give me as fine a shaving edge as an Escher. I knew that old barbers, in their 60s and 70s, up in Northern New Jersey, preferred coticules to hone their razors.

Experimenting with coticule honing I decided that, at my skill lever, I could get a smooth and comfortable, close shave from a razor honed/finished with a coticule ....... but ....... it would not be as sharp as that done with an escher, or with a high grit synthetic. So I figured that the barbers liked the coticule precisely because it didn't get "too sharp". So they could shave a customer with less fear of causing a nick. My guess is none of those old guys would have wanted an edge honed to a 30k synthetic level to shave their customers.

Fast forward a few years and quite a few stones, natural and synthetic, played with. A few years before I had spent a lot of $ on a 8x2 slate backed "kosher" coticule. It is a La Veinette which is purported to be a fast stone. Well mine didn't seem to fall into that category. I messed with it a bit from time to time and finally put it on the shelf. One day my TI super gnome 5/8 was still shaving well but not quite up to snuff.

I went over to the kuchen counter, opened the cabinet to get a stone to touch up and the La Veinette called to me. I began X strokes with plain water and every 30 strokes I made a pencil mark on a piece of paper, went and stropped 30 on leather and tried an HHT. It was coming along but not "there" yet. Cutting to the chase, I did 180 some odd X strokes, water only, light pressure, and that razor was as sharp and smooth as any I've ever honed on any stone be it natural or synthetic.

So this experience has me rethinking my impressions on some of my other vintage coticules. I will eventually go in for "whatever it takes" sessions with the half dozen or so that I have and see if I can find the sweet spot for all of them. BTW, I don't disagree with others experience that they are not all finishers. Each one has to be judged on its own merits. Just saying that sometimes, at least in my case, it is more the hand on the hone than the hone itself.

Thanks for all the advice and info. Praying I get lucky.

I ordered the stone from The Classic Edge - it's supposed to be the "select" grade - whatever that means.

After watching the videos, I think I'm going to try the "eliptocot" method first on a razor that I know is very easy to hone...

Can't wait to get it in my hands...

-john

p.s. No trading my cats!

All good advice here. Try different things as was mentioned. The best coti edge for me is by rubbing a slurry stone on the coti for say 60 rubs, washing off then 45 rubs, washing off progressively doing less rubs instead of diluting the same slurry etc until I get a tiny slurry in my case its no less then 8 rubs and done. It does take time and there are many methods, but that works for me.

Originally Posted by bill3152

All good advice here. Try different things as was mentioned. The best coti edge for me is by rubbing a slurry stone on the coti for say 60 rubs, washing off then 45 rubs, washing off progressively doing less rubs instead of diluting the same slurry etc until I get a tiny slurry in my case its no less then 8 rubs and done. It does take time and there are many methods, but that works for me.

bill I;ve recently started doing the exact same method, it turns out the metal swarf was giving me rough edges.

I've also been trying different pressures with the slurry stone, if you make a slurry then slowly rub the stone until the slurry stone is gliding over the surface, it improves the softness of the edge especially when finishing, almost like polihing the surface, its especially good for the finishing stages, it feels like honing on glass.

regards alex