Thread: Todays words of wisdom on honing...

Sounds good, but I'm not quite sure how you would force it to fail?

Regards,
Neil

I usually target individual hairs off the back of my hand, and if they easily pop hairs from from the toe to the heel of a 1K stone then I will move up the progression without any further tests until i come off the cordovan, then i fully expect that razor to walk through the HHT.

Originally Posted by Neil Miller

Sounds good, but I'm not quite sure how you would force it to fail?

Regards,
Neil

I think of it this way... (and I'll bet many new honers do the same in their exuberance to get to the more fun stones). I used to go to the back of my hand, arm or wrist and take a swipe at the hairs. I was hoping to see it clear a patch. Any patch. Fell some hairs and I would give it a positive on the AHT. That, in my mind is forcing it to pass. Getting that sort of global 'it cut some hairs' result can easily give you a false pass as well as false security that you are okay, and the bevel is set across the entire edge. Key word being ENTIRE.

Forcing it to fail is to take a small section of the edge, maybe 1/4", and target one hair, as Jamie says. If that section cuts hair, move to another small section and a new hair and so on down the blade, in hopes that you find that section that DOESN'T cut. Your goal in forcing it to fail is identify any spots that don't easily cut a single hair. Find a spot tht doesn't cut and the blade fails the AHT.

That's a great way to test the entire edge. I use the tnt. You can feel it digging in when its set. If you have an partial unset bevel somewhere, you will feel it.

Originally Posted by bill3152

That's a great way to test the entire edge. I use the tnt. You can feel it digging in when its set. If you have an partial unset bevel somewhere, you will feel it.

I am using that as well Bill. I am trying not to rely on any one test as you can get a false positive. If you're passing more than one test, you limit your chances of moving ahead too soon. AHT, TNT & Sharpie.. pass all three and odds are with you.

When in doubt,send it out

This is truism of pretty much all testing whether it be honing tests, stress tests, statistical hypothesis tests, whatever. Although it seems to have gone by the wayside in University exams, where it seems any excuse to pass is now the norm, but I digress....

Maybe it's because of my background, but I don't think of these things as "tests" - there's a connotation that tests need to be passed, though that was certainly not their original purpose or intent - I think of them as "models". Models like model trains - a stylised and usually scaled down representation of the real thing.

A good model allows you to explore, in relative comfort and safety, the various aspects of what it is you are interested in. Even a bad model can be useful as long as you are aware that it is a bad model and why it is bad (which is why we all go off when a HHT thread starts up, for example).

Once you understand the model and its limitations you can develop tests based upon that model. Tests are just a standardised mechanism that allow you to systematically (or not) explore the model, and are generally highly dependent on the model and the assumptions that went into creating it.

So with honing and arm hair tests, what I bet a lot of people forget about is the underlying model - that being that arm hair can adequately approximate facial hair for the purposes of edge assessment. Not that it matters all that much, since the empirical evidence for most people says the model is adequate for its intended purpose, but I do think it is always good to be aware anyway.

But anyway, I think the advice is useful and good. Tests are meant to be failed as well as passed, that's their purpose. And understanding the model on which they are based helps you understand what that fail or pass means.

James.

Originally Posted by MikekiM

I think of it this way... (and I'll bet many new honers do the same in their exuberance to get to the more fun stones). I used to go to the back of my hand, arm or wrist and take a swipe at the hairs. I was hoping to see it clear a patch. Any patch. Fell some hairs and I would give it a positive on the AHT. That, in my mind is forcing it to pass. Getting that sort of global 'it cut some hairs' result can easily give you a false pass as well as false security that you are okay, and the bevel is set across the entire edge. Key word being ENTIRE.

Forcing it to fail is to take a small section of the edge, maybe 1/4", and target one hair, as Jamie says. If that section cuts hair, move to another small section and a new hair and so on down the blade, in hopes that you find that section that DOESN'T cut. Your goal in forcing it to fail is identify any spots that don't easily cut a single hair. Find a spot tht doesn't cut and the blade fails the AHT.

Well, that just sounds like an odd way of expressing it to me!

Your 'forcing it to fail' is simply my 'seeing if its ready to progress' if it ain'r ready, it ain't ready, simple. If you don't test the entire edge as you progress from hone to hone, then you need to re-learn the basics, in my oplnion.

Regards,
Neil

Try to be aware of the different feels, sounds etc when you are honing. These are clues that will help you as you progress in your learning. Not to say they are as good as tests are, but they signal when a blade is getting close. You eye being trained to recognize when the scratch patterns are uniformly covering the bevel is helpful. Although all of these require verification. The eye is part of it, the feedback, tnt, tpt, aht etc. In the beginning you are flying blind so to speak, after a while these subtle sensations become more noticed.

Originally Posted by Neil Miller

Well, that just sounds like an odd way of expressing it to me!

Your 'forcing it to fail' is simply my 'seeing if its ready to progress' if it ain'r ready, it ain't ready, simple. If you don't test the entire edge as you progress from hone to hone, then you need to re-learn the basics, in my oplnion.

Regards,
Neil

Well, call it 'odd' if you wish. I guess, being as new to this as I am, I don't have your gift of being able to tell, intuitively, or through gift of mastery, if it is or ain't ready. It helps me to see it this way. You're welcome to accept or dismiss it as you see best, for you.

My preference is to learn to hone only on the natural stones and things aren't so black and white..

Having said that, your method seems way too 'loose' for me. Clearly, I lack your intuition.